Paladin Advance Move – Exterminatus
When you speak aloud your promise to defeat an enemy, you deal +2d4 damage against that enemy and -4 damage against anyone else. This effect lasts until the enemy is defeated. If you fail to defeat the enemy or give up the fight, you can admit your failure, but the effect continues until you find a way to redeem yourself.
If you were GM’ing what would you consider to be appropriate redemption, outside them going back and finishing the job?
Depends. Who or what did they vow to defeat? Why did they fail or give up the fight?
Jeremy Strandberg Well in my specific case, my Paladin comes from nobility, and when some random drunk started disrespecting his dynasty he challenged the man to a duel to the death.
But this is just an in general “what would you expect from a player to redeem themselves?”
Also: who is their deity, and what sort of penitence do they typically demand?
There’s so much that might influence an answer, and I suspect there’s no single catch-all response. Does the paladin even serve a specific deity, or does his power come straight from his own righteousness?
In general, I would say it’s not the GM’s job to set up some goalposts. Most of the time, the GM is giving problems, and the players are saying how they deal with those problems.
So, if I was the player, and I’d been humiliated in a duel by some random drunk (let’s say for the sake of argument that he simply didn’t show up at the appointed time and his mates were just there laughing at me)
Hmm, there’s always “get over it” if there’s no deity to impress, though that’s not particularly satisfying…How about later saving the drunkard’s life, showing that you can turn the other cheek? That’s certainly something that the GM can facilitate.
I’d have something somehow easy to accomplish. -4 dmg to ALL things but that one creature is pretty harsh.
If it happens before mid-session, I’d ask something that is achievable before the end of the session (depends on the diety he workships). If it happens after mid-session, I’d ask something that would be resolved by the start of the next session (meaning it can happen off-screen if not resolved by the end of the session).
Present a speech in town square as to how wrongful the drunk was and how his behavior should not be repeated.
Patrick Schenk so, the nobley nobleman paladin challenged a drunk to a duel to the death (because of a sleight) and he used exterminatus and still lost the duel?
Or did he realize that he was being a buffoon and called the duel off?
Either way, I’m still just made of questions. Does the paladin get his authority/powers from a god or from his station or his zealotry or what? Does Exterminatus, in particular, represent his conviction (and the -4 damage penalty his shame)? Or does it represent some divine blessing?
In other words: who does he need to redeem himself to? Himself/his confidence/his ego? His order?
His god? If you don’t know the answers to these things, ask the player.
Like, if the paladin initiated the duel with the drunkard, invoked Exterminatus, and then realized “oh crap, this guy is just some loudmouthed drunk, I’m not really going to kill him,” and the paladin’s authority/power comes from his faith and confidence and devotion, then simply deciding to call off the fight and not murder some nobody is probably redemption enough. But if he gets his powers from his stern and judgmental god, who has ordained that the nobility are above all others and the paladin’s duty is to enforce that Natural Order, well… the paladin’s got to redeem himself to his fascist deity, now doesn’t he? Some sort of ritualized confession, and cleansing, and penance (“bring back the heads of 7 orcs!”) might be in order.
Point being: there’s no “general” answer to your question. Any time you start talking about redemption, you’re dealing with all sorts of moral and ethical questions that can’t be answered without context.
Jeremy Strandberg Duel hasn’t happened. This is just a question for general knowledge.
I’ll spitball a few ideas:
– Burn down the bar he got drunk at
– I like Robert Doe’s idea of a speech to the town
– Spend a few days working in a hospital, in meditation at the church, or studying the law his order
– Go to his home and demand compensation from his family
– Demand compensation for the slight from the citizens or the local government
– Review the Cleric Deity move for ideas (secrets, glory, etc.)
– Must self inflict the order’s punishment for being a drunkard. This might be my fav as it creates a good establishing question: Paladin, what is the punishment for a drunk in your order? (answers) You have suffered one to live, you must carry that out on yourself to redeem yourself.
Hope it helps!
As others have noted, appropriate redemption is dependent on the context established within your game.
That said, you have a set of GM Principles and a GM Agenda that proscribes, in the rules, how the GM should respond when outlining the act of redemption.
Generally, the idea is NOT to punish the player, but to provide the group with a good opportunity to play through the PC getting punished/required to atone.
Even though you’re developing a punishment for the Paladin, you are compelled to be a fan of the character. Develop a punishment the gives the player some room to explore and develop the character further, and lets the rest of the group buy in and participate on the journey.
Finally, play to find out what happens: don’t set out some concrete task: “go kill an orc!” but set out an objective with room for interpretation: “Save the people of the village from their darkest threat.” This leaves the players the opportunity to talk or play to determine what constitutes the “darkest threat” and how to save the villagers from it. You’ve pointed them toward the next adventure, rather than giving them some specific demand to cross off a list.
Andrew Fish I am the player, not the GM.
Patrick Schenk – your questions asked “If you were GMing….”
Was there something else you were looking for in response? Advice for a non-GM player to support the player of The Paladin or the GM?