How do you handle romance involving characters?
Do you handle it strictly through the roleplaying fiction?
Or do you involve dice and custom moves?
I wrote this custom move up and am curious for feedback.
(Also, I don’t have the Monsterhearts game – which I understand involves lots of romance)
When you try to start a romantic Bond with an NPC, roll+CHA.
– On a 10+, define your new bond.
– On a 7-9, the GM defines a bond between you and the other character that isn’t romantic – though that could someday change
– On a 6-, GM makes a move.
Defining a bond could be anything from “friends with benefits” to “the beginning of my life’s love”.
A non-romantic bond could be “We’re friends, but I still want more” or “We’re friends, and that’s totally cool” and so on.
A GM move could be
– Reveal an Unwelcome Truth (“You’re just not that into me”)
– Show signs of an approaching threat (jealous rival)
– Use up their resources (Expensive date doesn’t go well)
– Turn their move back on them (Relationship starts but is dysfunctional)
you probably don’t want to bring monsterhearts moves into DW unless you really want to change the tenor of the game
Romance is a bit more complicated than just a single move. You should roleplay to see if it comes to that. With that it mind, roleplaying a romance can be very awkward for some people, so ask your players if they’re fine with it.
If you want to make it mechanical, I’d run them like a sort of passive Aid or Interfere, offering a +1 to rolls when involved but opening then up to consequences.
But you should use them as sources of consequences too.
When you go out for a night on the pull, Roll +CHA.
On a 10+, you find your ideal partner
7-9 you find a passable partner
On a fail, choose one:
You have a great night
You don’t lose a significant amount of your cash
You aren’t now married to a literal horse.
From #BardWeek
FOOLING AROUND
When you seduce a GM character someone after an evening of performance, roll+CHA
On a hit you get some interesting information out of the pillow talk.
On a 7-9, choose 1 complication
– In the heat of the moment you divulge some information you shouldn’t have. Tell the GM what it is
– You get caught by their significant other or parents
– They will fall in love with you and will cause a scene
You may choose an extra option from the 7-9 list, if you do you learn some information that is useful to your current adventure or troubles.
Why would you need mechanics for this? Just have the NPC react appropriately.
Unless you are going for a Monsterhearts game, which as Adam McConnaughey says will really change things.
Or Dungeonhearts
When you fall in love with someone enough to affect your decisions, tell the GM who you’re in love with and mark experience.
Anyone wanting to game that would derail the game pretty hard. I would advise against that.
Is the move above only for NPCs? Because if it can be used on PCs too, that 10+ result totally stomps all over the other player’s agency. You are not letting them decide how thier character reacts.
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I wrote up romance moves once upon a time for a romantic fantasy twist on Dungeon World. These were meant for Princess Bride kind of stuff, Blue Rose kind of stuff, so its all built around the idea of True Love being a real thing that a PC could have with an NPC or another PC. So, these aren’t really representing the broad spectrum of relationship types out there, nor are they about just having sex. They’re fairy tale kind of moves — big and melodramatic. I also made sure to make consent a real thing given spotlight at the table. So, here they are:
When you fall in love (your call), tell the GM about whom you hold affection for and draw three heart-shaped boxes. These are your Passion. At the end of any session where you marked experience for your true love, take +1 passion. At the end of any session where you did not mark experience for your true love, take -1 passion. You cannot have more passion than you have heart-shaped boxes. If you must take -1 passion and you have no passion remaining, erase all of your heart-shaped boxes.
When you erase your heart-shaped boxes, you realize it was never love after all, and you must move on. Unless something profound happens to change the emotional landscape between you and your former love, you probably will never have Passion for them again.
With preparation, and time and solitude with your beloved, you may ask the other player if you have their character’s heart. If you don’t, I’m sorry — love must be given freely, it cannot be taken. Choose: erase all passion boxes, or mark a debility as your grief drags you low.
With preparation, and time and solitude with your beloved, you may ask the other player if you have their character’s heart. If you do, huzzah! Roll+Passion. On a hit, make an overture to your beloved and promise you’ll be there always and they admit the feelings they hold now. ➲On a 10+ choose two. ➲On a 7-9, choose one, but your love requires a test of your integrity or character (their player’s call):
•Your beloved will wear their affections openly, proudly, and for all to see
•Your passion warms the heart of a suitor who would otherwise challenge you
•You avoid scandal, and those who hear of your love will see its beauty
•Your beloved demonstrates their commitment, providing a tool or skill you desperately need (their call)
➲On a miss, you hesitate, stutter, stall, lose your nerve, the moment passes, or you are interrupted.
While you and your partner are truly and hopelessly in love, you need only keep track of 1 Passion and one heart-shaped box. The GM will spend your Passion like hold to distract you with thoughts of your love, interfere with your rolls, and put you in dangerous situations for love. You may spend your Passion like Preparation. The GM spending your Passion doesn’t prevent you from spending it; you each can spend it, so long as you hold Passion. Your Passion resets to 1 at the start of every session.
At the end of a session, if you failed to mark XP for following your alignment, you may mark XP if you acted on behalf of or in support of your beloved.
The fact that Dungeon World isn’t basically Dungeonhearts kept me away for a long time, has probably kept me from actually running it instead of just reading it, and still disappoints me greatly.
The thing about Monsterhearts (and Apocalypse World, for that matter) is that they have playbook-specific moves triggered by having sex with a character. Not all of them involve romance and most of them are themed around manipulation of one form or another. One of the Monsterhearts sex moves is a way to force people to join your clique, for example.
In general, Dungeon World is less themed around social manipulation and lacks the same kind of ‘social currency’ mechanic (strings or Hx in MH and AW respectively.) It’s also lacking one of the critical rules for manipulating someone into doing something by offering XP (this is part of how you retain some player agency in the inter-character interactions.) It deliberately minimizes the various social rules in favor of telling a good dungeon crawl story. A romantic entanglement in line with the Dungeon World principles would be one that’s dangerous, such as involving seduction and theft, in which case you probably end up in situations where you Defy Danger with CHA.
Romance can still be an interesting part of character development, but I’m not sure if it really fits in with DW mechanically. I’d probably just let it play out in the fiction, which does still have the potential to impact the game. For instance, having a romantic interest gives you a new way of putting a character in a spot, using their lover as the target.
My group’s bard romances NPCs all the time. It’s just part of his character and I’m a fan of it. I’ll have him roll+CHA to get the NPC’s initial impression of him and then go from there with his choices and how he treats the NPC. If he does something they don’t agree with then they like him less. He once managed to turn an NPC that was going to be an enemy into an ally and eventually a lover. Just go with your fiction, don’t make it a mechanical thing.
What I’m hearing is that if people want DW to work differently, they’re wrong. Is that it?
wow, Joshua Kubli . What I think you’re hearing is “use the right tool for the job. Here’s a bunch of tools, but don’t use the hammer to screw in a motherboard.”
William Nichols Not trying to be rude, I certainly didn’t come here to pick a fight, but if a tool does 3/4 of what I want:
* How many people need to tell some of us it’s wrong to wish that it did 4/4? Especially if there is no tool that does 4/4?
* Is the only answer to pretend that 3/4 is enough?
Joshua Kubli
I wouldn’t say that; there’s nothing wrong with hacking on DW to get different types of play. It’s just that when you start playing with mechanics that are outside the core principles/intentions of the system, there may be issues that come up in execution. There are lots of other *World games that have more complex relationship dynamics with mechanics that you can port over and play with, but it’s just worth bearing in mind that those are very different games with different design intentions behind their mechanics.
Though, in regards to the OP’s proposed move, it’s pretty mechanics-light and so it’s unlikely to hurt anything, though it’s also probably not strictly necessary. Basically it just serves the role of having some randomness in deciding which way a relationship will go. Honestly, though, it might be more interesting to just let the player dictate the direction of the fiction (maybe they’re interested in playing out a rocky relationship?) since nothing directly mechanical is at stake.
Dan Bryant Fair enough. Sorry if I misunderstood. Still not sure I agree, but you make good points.
Pedro Bastos Good advice. I made that mistake with a character in a previous campaign and tried to play out a long-lost love subplot that the player clearly wasn’t in to.
Chris Stone-Bush This move is designed strictly for PC/NPC interactions, not PC/PC interactions – which I would run as an in-fiction “it’s between the players” kind of thing.
Some background: a player character in my game flirted with an NPC. He played it awkwardly, befitting his 8 Charisma.
My first thought was to simply have the NPC politely decline to return interest.
But then I thought: what if? And following the DW agenda to Fill the Characters’ Lives with Adventure and to Play to Find Out What Happens (as well as the Principle to Be a Fan of the Characters), I decided to let the dice give the character a chance.
Hence the custom move.
The player rolled well and now his character now has the bond “Friends with the potential for benefits” with the NPC.
Now, if the player had tried a different approach, say aggressive instead of awkward, I would not have delegated the result to the dice.
And the progression of the Bond will be developed strictly through fiction; I think there’s some potential for interesting storytelling to be had here.
Would I use this custom move again? Probably only if I don’t have a strong gut feeling for how any future romantic approaches should turn out.
I appreciate the feedback you’ve posted (and whatever feedback is yet to be posted), and I look forward to reading through it as time allows.
I wrote a wench here: https://steelsmiter.blogspot.com/2016/07/dungeon-worlds-tavern-characters.html?zx=4ce96277f618a920
and a move dissassociated from the playbook here: https://steelsmiter.blogspot.com/2016/08/tavern-moves-in-dungeon-world.html
I may look over Monster Hearts and see what I come up with on a future blog post if there’s enough interest.