Hey Gang,
Some thoughts and questions regarding blending systems. In this case, DW and D&D 5e.
A while back I asked if there would be a similar way to get roll mechanics of D&D 5e to mimic the success/partial success/failure of DW. There were some good suggestions there, such as just rolling two d20. As it turns out, 5e has an official variant (that I missed on first read through), that has a partial success on a roll missed by 1 or 2 points. Thanks for all that input, btw. Still useful.
Secondly, I’m curious if anyone else is also experimenting with blending DW with other systems, particularly 5e. I actually like both systems quite a bit, but sometimes I like to mix and match where I can. Assuming the example above works out pretty well, I was wondering what your thoughts would be on completely removing initiative from 5e. That’s one of the great things I love about DW, as it really reinforces what the whole system is about. I’m not even sure removing initiative from 5e would be feasible, simply because each system handles combat so differently. Thoughts?
I know I could just use one system exclusively, and might end up doing that in the end. These are just some thought exercise’s and ‘talking out loud’. Thanks a bunch!
(might post this over on the 5e G+ as well)
Caveat: I have no actual play experience with D&D 5e, only prior editions.
That said, I experimented with many alternatives to initiative in AD&D, 2e, 3.xe/pathfinder, and 4e and always liked it better. It doesn’t break anything to let all the combatants on one side go, then the opponents. In fact it allows for some fun and awesome Chrono Trigger style double- and triple-techs if you let teams break up their actions, instead of each having to complete Move, Attack, Minor before the next person. And then do the same for the monsters.
Another way I have done it (in both DW and D&D) is follow the fiction to who goes first, then let them decide who goes next. Of course if the heroes pick the monster last, the monster can just pick itself for the first move of the next exchange. (I think I cribbed that idea from Fate CORE but I don’t recall specifically).
Point being as long as you don’t gyp anyone on their allotment of things they can do on their turn I doubt it will break anything.
You will be disappointed trying to get combat in 5E to work like DW. They are fundementally two different games when it comes to that. Also everything on people’s character sheet goes towards that D&D combat so yeah its hard to change it.
Yeah, I pretty much figured that. Just wanted to throw it out there, and see if I was missing something.
I would say transfer what you can. Basically Fronts and Steadings are cool tools you can use in all rpgs. The GM moves are also very good to transfer when people fail.
For sure. Fronts and steadings are a must for me.
From 5e into DW
* 5e’s advantage/disadvantage system is easily mimicked in DW with the addition of a bonus or penalty die (roll an extra d6, drop lowest or highest as appropriate)
* by extension, that means you can use 5e’s inspiration mechanic in DW. Both of these are philosophical drifts from DW’s roots, but I’ve found them very satisfactory at the table
* 5e’s backgrounds would enrich DW characters. It would not even require adding moves, since the mechanical part is largely fiction.
From DW into 5e
* DW bonds are worth copying into 5e’s bonds, both literally and conceptually
* fronts and threats can be used as is
* DW’s abstraction of certain extended tasks and resources (travel, camping, downtime, rations) can be used with minimal tweaking in 5e, though only if the group wants to see those thing streamlined
* DW’s guidance on when not to roll the dice can improve 5e
That’s just off the top of my head – there are unquestionably more.
Rob Donoghue
“* DW’s guidance on when not to roll the dice can improve 5e”
what guidance do you mean?
I’m not sure there’s a section that comes out and says it, but DW works best when the dice are rolled when it’s interesting and driven by the fiction, no just because you normally would in a game. This lets the GM respect player awesomeness for less critical things, and saves the dice for legitimate tension.
As an example, if your thief has to break in somewhere, and there are 3 locked doors between him and where he needs to go, do you roll for every door? In DW, I would hope not. Same thinking can map to 5e
Rob Donoghue
Actually you would because it triggers the Tricks of the Trade move each time. When we are going by the text.
“When a player describes their character doing something that triggers a move, that move happens and its rules apply. If the move requires a roll, its description will tell you what dice to roll and how to read their results.
A character can’t take the fictional action that triggers a move without that move occurring. “
I do however get what you mean. You lobby for moving directly past these oportunities to trigger the move.
“You unlock the door.
15 minutes and two locks later you stand in a…”
The thief opens the door, everyone looks at you to see what happens and you make a dungeon move and change the scene.
I’ve been picking at a Deadlands and DW mashup. I’ve been trying to work on a way to replicate the partial success/failure with using a deck of cards. Maybe something like a real stripped down version of blackjack?
I’d suggest regarding initiative that you use the Savage Worlds system using a card deck. It’s fast, changes things up each round and can fairly easily be imported.
I’m currently running a mash-up of Dungeon World, Savage Worlds, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and a bunch of other games. I’ve even incorporated the advantage/disadvantage from D&D 5e, but as I’ve gone to using dice types instead of +1/-1 modifiers, advantage just steps up your challenge die and disadvantage steps it down. Largely the same effect.
Stephen Hassard — Baker’s “Murderous Ghosts” is claimed to be a PBTA game, but it uses a blackjack style draw mechanic — player knows he’s going to bust every few draws, so has to try to arrange to make the riskiest draws in low stakes situations.
Russell Borogove – Thanks for the recommendation I’ll have to check it out. Sounds like just what I was looking for.
“Adventuring Gear” has made it into every game we’ve played since I read the DW manual the first time.
…. but that’ll change when we launch LotFP or Torchbearer.