I’m finding that the fighter is very OP when it comes to killing things, I’ve almost gotten the the point of not bothering with making monsters cause he will slice them through in two seconds because he’s gotten all the moves that increase his damage. And now trying to combat that with nasty enemies makes it almost a fighter mage thing where the fighter will have a reasonably tough time but the enemy will dominate the others. Any suggestions of how to combat this?
I’m finding that the fighter is very OP when it comes to killing things, I’ve almost gotten the the point of not…
I’m finding that the fighter is very OP when it comes to killing things, I’ve almost gotten the the point of not…
May I ask for some detailed actual play?
Sure, he can cause huge amounts of damage. Will that help when he’s surrounded by enemies? What about when the Wizard is trying to finalise a ritual? The monster doesn’t need to kill the players to be challenging.
Let him! That’s the fighter’s thing. But you don’t have to make it easy on him. Attack the other party members, and make him go on the defensive. Make the consequences for his failure much more dire than just letting the monster do damage: separate him; disarm him; grievously wound him; kill bystanders.
Every time a player picks up dice, they are asking you to ruin something.
Stop thinking about monsters as just bags of HP that trade blows with the Fighter until they die! Remember that monsters are (mostly) intelligent creatures who can use tactics and hit where it hurts by mobbing the Fighter or trying to disarm them or cut their armour off.
Also remember that you have GM moves other than “deal damage to them” that you can do on a partial success/miss (take away the Fighter’s stuff by disarming him, or threaten their allies, for example).
Stop trying to challenge the characters. Re-read your agenda, principles and moves. Now you are a murderous loon who can slice through any opponent in two seconds – that sounds pretty compelling to me. People fear you. Naive but lovable kids with something to prove challenge you to lethal duels. Evil wizards want to recruit you. What do you do?
It’s almost as though the fighter was mechanically empowered to fight things.
😉
One is if he’s good in melee, try ranged enemies. Also you could put the story where he is mixed between fighting & commanding a troop of soldiers. Can also go with a cursed magic weapon to limit him or find some story to change his views to certain enemies now allies or some deity trying to get him to join that side either as a fighter or new paladin. Fighters fight & it is what they are good at but an RPG story can go a long way to do more for the character than just fighting.
Jason Morningstar ” Evil wizards want to recruit you. “
That’s going in the next game…
Take him out of the fight by knocking him down and using other forms of crowd control on him; he can only roll 10+ so many times. Your monsters don’t need to do a ton of damage, they just need to be challenging; part of that challenge is taking him out of commission by way of mind control, knock down, binding, holds, sleep, criplling poison, etc. When I played at PAX a poisoned arrow took my character out of commission for a while.
I would recommend reading some Joe Abercrombie (like The Heroes or Best Served Cold) for some hell hard-bitten killers can go through
I’m getting better at making the monsters more intelligent and going for more objectives then just being fighting bags(though sometimes with random encounters it can be hard with that).
The only thing I will say why I have a problem is that I feel that monsters a lot of time bring drama and tension to a game and I like drama and tension I feel thats the main part of a narrative game so if the fighter is mowing down all the things that are supposed to create that drama meaning that it gets less and less like your having fun and more and more easy if you know what I mean.
And as for two an examples I created some gargoyles that had i thought some good armour and the fighter was able to smash through them pretty easily winning that random encounter in seconds.
Also i created some demons which the fighter did have a tough time with but when the fighter was off the other characters were getting almost slaughtered.
Also, what do you mean by random encounter?
I think that while the fighter is all about killing, the game itself is not. You’re fighting for something worthy, not just to kill things!
james day try creating tension with giving the characters a choice in a fight (saving person x or y), then having to deal with the drama of the consequences especially if they were supposed to save a villain for some king wanting him captured vs some rich noble before they escape with time to get one person. Just doing tension with harder enemies works for a while but will get dull. Try variety of things to flesh the character out beyond just stabbing/crushing things & if nothing else they will retire or respec soon to another class.
Alessandro Gianni Well for example go on a perilous journey I created a random encounter for the danger part of the move. The gargoyles were part of that.
Well thanks for the help and it shows how much I still need to learn how to GM which is good. But some things are quite hard to get your head around.
Also I thought puzzles were kind of against this game because it feels like if you have a puzzle it means that thing is set in stone how to solve the puzzle which goes against the whole play to find out what happens thing.
Lots of good stuff above; go do that! One small addition:
Smart opponents will use range in melee to thwart an enemy. The fighter is typically only going to cover 1 or 2 out of Hand/Close/Reach. Be sure to show a downside to their equipment! A Close/Reach broadsword isn’t going to help against the goblin stabbing you with a Hand dagger. Any failed roll is a good opportunity to change range. Changing range is frequently a good worse outcome/hard bargain/ugly choice on a 7-9 Defy Danger. Opponents that like Hand range often come in groups; it’s hard to stop them all if they swarm you! Opponents that like Reach range often enjoy Forceful, so it makes sense they would knock an opponent back.
james day do use puzzles if that’s your thing! Just don’t think of the solution, let the players find out how to solve a puzzle. It’s the same with monsters: you put monsters with all kinds of nasty abilities, and it’s up to the party to imagine how to overcome them.
Mainly, what Jason Morningstar said.
The worst thing is the GM who gets petty and manipulative about PC power. “Oh, you built up a awesome fighter over a dozen sessions? Ha ha, now we’re playing a puzzle game!” Terrible.
Be a fan of the characters.
It’s the player’s job to seek out challenges, not your job to force them into one. Plop down a legendary dungeon on your map. Tell them that none of the great warriors of the Third Age were able to plunder its depths. If they go for it, awesome — bring the heat with super badass monsters.
If they don’t and they keep slaughtering the goblin tribes instead, that’s cool, too. Bring the consequences and interesting fantasy stuff over there (recruited by an evil lord is genius).
BE A FAN.
To put it another way:
Populate your world with all kinds of cool fantasy content that you find interesting, across a whole spectrum of “difficulty”. Then give the players free reign to travel, explore, experiment, and engage with it. This, instead of “creating encounters” specifically for some purpose.
When you do this, all that leveling up and character growth will make sense. Remember the dragon in the northern mountains that destroyed all the crops? Well, now you can finally go face it.
Without this method, the world seems to “fill in” for the PCs, and is obviously fake and contrived.
Other things to try, might have been listed or in the core book. Get with path choices for the characters. If the fighter is a killing machine you can try these:
*the group goes after a villain and as the final hit is going, an npc shows up to declare the villain innocent. if he lives does he want to go back letting the group now defend him from his other enemies or dies then they have to explain this.
*falsely accused in town as the fighter is a murder machine & the bodies look like it might be his weapon or is it?
*capturing some convicts or monsters for a town who might not want to go back or do they?
*the group gets hired to steal a noble evil baddie from a place that also has a few other people also rich, as the place is collapsing they can only rescue one, one is the job but the other will make them rich.
*some nighttime monster sneaks into the fighter’s mind to now make his life a waking nightmare of ghosts of all the people/monsters he killed, who’s real & who’s not?
Just look at other fantasy stories or shows like Xena for ideas on how to twist the story so that instead of just being a killing machine or another class now there’s choices to make & deal with the consequences to add tension & drama.
Mostly, what others have already said. Don’t try to nerf the fighter, think of monsters as more than bags of HP.
With that said… I get you. I’ve got the fighter in my game with merciless, scent of blood, +2 piercing, and SMASH! You want your world to be fantastic and monsters to feel like the dangerous things they’re supposed to be, but as soon as the fighter rolls Hack n’ Slash, there’s an 80%+ chance he’s gonna do damage and then that foe is probably toast.
So things to consider/try:
The fighter can’t be everwhere. Surround the PCs and attack in waves. Seperate the fighter from the others. Use fliers to straffe or bombard. From the fighter’s standpoint, make it more about choosing who to engage (and how to get there) than about “how much damage can I do?”
Play with ranges. Is the fighter’s weapon close? Or close/hand? Use dudes with reach (especially things that can GRAB with reach) and make him Defy Danger to get to them in the first place. The fighter’s weapon has reach? Swarm him foes that get inside his guard, or pepper him with missile fire.
Not everything dies from a sword thrust (or whatever). Use creatures that can’t simply be weaponed to death: swarms of bug-sized fire imps, ghosts, green slimes, arguably elementals. “How do we kill this thing?!?” I dunno, maybe you should Spout some Lore.
Threaten other stats: I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of foes with the stealthy, terrifying, devious, and/or magical tags. Sure, once the fighter corners one, it’s a goner. But in the meantime, simply trying to find and engage such creatures is a challenge to stats other than Strength and Damage.