Thinking of adding Beliefs and Inatincts from the Burning Wheel games to DW but not to sure on the reward for it and…

Thinking of adding Beliefs and Inatincts from the Burning Wheel games to DW but not to sure on the reward for it and…

Thinking of adding Beliefs and Inatincts from the Burning Wheel games to DW but not to sure on the reward for it and whether instincts would work.

For those who don’t know Beliefs are what a character believes and if they play that they get rewarded and the GMs job is to bring in things that challenge those beliefs. Instincts are things that that the player wants to get around like always having a sword out in danger. Burning wheel rewards you for having this instinct causes you trouble.

So I feel this could add a lot more RP to DW. But a good reward is the thing. XP is an obvious choice but if they are doing these things every session could level up to much. +1 to a roll could be interesting and its close to the reward that BW gives you.

What do others think? Do you think it would work in DW?

20 thoughts on “Thinking of adding Beliefs and Inatincts from the Burning Wheel games to DW but not to sure on the reward for it and…”

  1. First and foremost, I would take out the alignments and put the beliefs in instead. So write down your belief, and if you fought for that or sacrificed something for that during the session, XP at the end of session move.

    Instincts require some more thought, maybe.

  2. You need to bring (and adapt) the whole Artha system for that to be effective. That’s hard to do, especially as far as epiphanies and aristeia are concerned. BW is deeply integrated.

  3. I don’t know if you do, you can choose rewards that are powerful in DW to get people to play these. For example I think what Alberto Muti says is right and that you might be better to replace alignment with belief.

    As for Instincts while there is no machanics you can get around you can use instincts for fictional positioning. For example a bard could have the instinct I get out of danger using my charm saying to the GM im going to want to use my dex for defy danger as much as possible. The problem with that I see is that I can’t see a way to use that against the player so they get rewarded

  4. I really like the idea of replacing Alignment with Belief, just to throw my two cents into that pile.

    I don’t know a lot about how Instincts work in Burning Wheel, but I had an idea that may or may not be stupid. What if every character had an “Instinct” trait that started at like, 1 or 2 or something. It refreshes when you make camp. When appropriate, you could spend 1 Instinct to instantly … do your instinct. It’s not fleshed out, just an idea, but ..

    So like, if your Instinct was to have your sword drawn at the first sight of danger, and you were attacked unawares, you could spend an Instinct to immediately be armed, despite the fact that it was a surprise attack. Or if your Instinct is to use your charms to get out of danger, you could spend Instinct to immediately get 10+ on a Defy Danger (Charisma) roll.

    Just a basic rough thing. You could have “Instinct” (what your character does instinctively) and “INST” (the actual point pool).

  5. I am busy with a Cowboy AW hack and I am experimenting with a FATE-ish system where you can add (or subtract) 1 to a roll after it is rolled, by saying why a specific aspect of a character is important in the fiction at that moment. It works quite well in playtest so far – beliefs can function in exactly the same way.

  6. Kristopher Miller I believe instincts were two fold to improve roleplay by imbuing your character with an interesting instinct. Always having a sword says your charaxter is ready or paranoid. And having a thing that says i never want to deal with this machanic. Having a sword out always means i doesn’t take an action for you to do. I feel having a look at it, it is one of those things that is tied to the system you are using.

    Maybe goals might work better with DW? In this session my character has a goal and if you complete it you get a reward. That allows the GM to maybe push those goals into what is in play while it also is an RP thing, why does your character want to find out about the screams in the wood? Might encrouch on paladins quests though a bit.

  7. Kasper Brohus Allerslev might be interesting, would have no idea how to marty those two systems togethet…i like the roleplay and the reward system of Burning Wheel and I love that it takes about 5 mins to make a character with DW and it doesn’t have millions of skills to be careful of so i feel if you could marry those two it would be great. 

  8. james day Ah yes yes, I remember Instincts now from Mouseguard. I misunderstood the intent there and now I realize. 😀 I like the idea of highjacking Goals straight from that system to DW. I don’t thinkit encroaches too much on the Paladin’s quest, since they actually get mechanical bonuses for it.

  9. Agree with others that Beliefs are a direct replacement for Alignments and Drives.

    Instincts are a little bit of a different animal.  An Instinct defines something always true about a character or an action they always take when certain conditions are met.  Examples:

    -When on patrol, I always have my bow drawn.

    -Never be the first to taste the food or drink.

    -Always have a shiv hidden on my person.

    Instincts are something that are considered fact in the fiction, whether the player announces them or not.

    In Burning Wheel, a reward is earned when playing the Instinct gets the character in trouble or creates a difficult or awkward situation.

    If your Instinct is to never be the first to taste food or drink and the custom of your hosts is for the guest to drink first, then following your instincts may insult them and cause trouble.

    If you run into another group while patrolling and they see that you already have your bow drawn and an arrow nocked because of your Instinct, they make take that as a sign of aggression.

    Rewards will vary depending on how often Instincts come into play in your game. They could be an XP or some other boon, such as a token that can be cashed in for a +1 forward, cancellation of a negative 7-9 effect, change a DM move from hard to soft, change a 6- result to a 7-9 result, etc.  

  10. So I feel replacing the alignment with Beliefs is def the way to go with this. Giving you xp.

    Thinking now that Goals should be in as well and if you complete them you get a kind of inspiration point which allows you to spend it for a +1 to a roll.

  11. Why not make bonds with different goals or steps toward accomplishing your goal? That way you can get XP for moving closer and ultimately accomplishing your goal. It would also motivate a player to actively pursue their quest or goal, like slaying the man who killed their father, etc….

  12. I don’t know i really like bonds between players so i wouldn’t want to replace them with goals. I just see this as an extra thing that allows mexas a gm to know this is kind of what you as a player want to focus on

  13. Are you finding the players advance too slowly? Seems you are looking for extra ways to give them XP. Or are you looking for ways to add more RP or engage the players more? Just wondering.

  14. More RP really, I really like the idea of Beliefs, instincts and Goals and how they could improve the RP experience and get my new players thinking about RP a lot more.

  15. james day The characters are part of the fiction.  If the RP’ing is low, it may be that more attention needs to be given to the fiction of the characters.  You can do this by asking about things like their: family; background; desires; regrets; etc.  

    If someone is struggling to come up with good answers, try can asking leading questions. E.g.:

    – What god do you pray to in times of difficulty? Why did you chose that god?

    – There was someone who was a mentor to you when you were younger. Who were they? What happened the last time you saw them? What did they say that’s stayed with you ever since?

    – Seeing the [person/place/thing] brings back strong memories.  What are they? Why are the feelings these memories trigger so powerful?

    – What battle cry do you use? Why that one?

    – The NPC does something that you recognize. What is it? How do you know what it means?

    – You see someone who wronged you in the past.  Who are they? What did they do?

    – There’s something you always do at a meal. What is it? Where did you first pick up that habit? Why do you still do it?

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