Heres an idea for a new Starting Move for the Thief.
Eavesdropper
When you secretly try to gain Information, roll +dex on your discern realety roll instead of +wis.
…coz it would be strange if the one with the highest Wis score would do such a thing, just because most of the time this would be the cleric. no ?
I’m not saying it’s a bad move. But I’m wondering how it makes sense fictionally. How is the Thief using their agility to gain this information?
Also, remember that moves in Dungeon World aren’t just skill checks. Fictional positioning is very important. It doesn’t matter if the Cleric has a higher Wisdom score if they can’t get to a location to overhear people. I think that’s what you’re going for with the Eavesdropper move, but it isn’t quite there yet.
Ist in situations where you avoid being detected and do what, well, thiefs do, sneak up someone to gain useful information, eavesdrop on doors and whatnot to discern whats going on behind them and so on…
I agree with Christopher here. Does the move require a roll? What about: When you Discern Realities using your thieving skills, you get to ask one extra question whatever the result of your roll. On a 10+, you can ask any question you want.
Then you need to write that into the move, Roland P. As written , the move’s trigger is simply When you secretly try to gather information which is pretty broad. Like, a character could just stand nearby a group of NPCs looking innocent, and claim they were secretly listening in, right?
Something like this:
Eavesdropper
When you listen in on a conversation from a dangerous or unlikely hiding place, take +1 forward to Discern Realities about that conversation.
The Point is that the thief can use its main Attribute for something that fits the class very well in my view, i.e. eavesdropping. This is a broad field, and i think its ok to reflect that in the moves description.
How ’bout:
Eavesdropper
When you secretly try to gather Information and need to avoid possible detection, roll +dex on your discern realities roll instead of +wis.
Better, though in my opinion there is still nothing in the trigger explaining why the move allows the Thief to use dexterity. “Avoiding detection” can be things other than using agility/dexterity to hide somewhere. Like wearing a costume, or just chillaxing nearby.
Christopher Stone-Bush i think thats too narrow, like i said i’m also thinking about peeking around the Corner, eavesdroppinmg behind closed doors. its not just about conversations, its as broad as discerning realities, but with the dex/wis Change and the stealthy tag on it.
…But thinking about the +1, it may very well do the trick, for if you have a less fighty thief and have more wis, its just a better eavesdropper, hmmm
My main issue with the move is that the trigger does not require the character to do anything dexterity related. So it doesn’t make sense to me fictionally that they would get to use their Dex in place of Wis.
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Defy Danger with DEX.
This is trying to make a move do too much. Eavesdropping is just something you can do if you can get to the right vantage undetected. You have a variety of means at your disposal already to achieve that vantage, whatever your class is.
Eavesdropping is just listening to an exchange you’re not a part of. It is not Discern Realities because you do not fulfill the trigger of closely examining a person or situation. The thief is good at eavesdropping because their dexterity allows them to approach a conversation when it would be risky without drawing attention (dex to climb a tree without breaking a branch, open a window quietly, and the like). Normally, without risk, eavesdropping is just saying you’re listening in and the GM makes a move to answer you.
A proper eavesdropping move should change something of this context: maybe you can Discern Realities just from listening in, maybe you don’t need to creep around out of sight to overhear and your presence is generally ignored, maybe you just get a +1 when defying dex to spy from a perch.
If I wanted some Eavesdropping done, I’d send for the Bard, not the Thief.
When you stealthily eavesdrop on someone, roll+DEX. On a 10+, both. On a 7-9, choose 1:
– You hear exactly what you needed to.
– You get away scott free.
Honestly, yeah, if you feel the need for standing and listening to have its own move, that’s a pretty solid contender. I still doubt such a move is necessary, but that’s a good one.
I like where Travis Stout’s move is going. I’d still want to push the trigger to something more explicitly dexterity-based. Something like ” When you secretly listen in on a conversation from above or below the speakers… ”
In my game, we kind of approached this from the other angle. The ranger had a habit of listening in on people’s conversations – I wrote it up as a background move that gave her +1 to spout lore, if she could explain how she had overheard this. I figured that she’s stealthy enough to not be caught very often, the chance part came up in what she had learned.