Apologies if there have been posts on this before, I can’t seem to find any using the Google + app on my phone, but how do you handle stealth in dungeon world?
For instance, I have two PCs trying to sneak up on some guards, and they have a pretty good reason for being able to sneak, but it still feels like there should be a roll. I totally understand the idea of letting fiction determine how well they sneak around, but again, still feels like there needs to be a roll. Am I missing something? Would love any help on this.
Kasper Brohus Allerslev brilliantly talked about it on his blog. AMHO all is said.
http://partialsuccess.wordpress.com/2014/02/27/stealth-in-dungeon-world/
Defy Danger is the first moves I’d think about, unless the PCs have their own moves to do so.
The danger being “getting caught”, of course.
I’d generally allow them to observe the area using +INT if it makes sense in the fiction, allowing them to learn the placement of possible guards , obstacles and hiding spots. If they succeed I’d allow them to either automatically succeed at reaching their goal undetected if the situation allows for it or give them a bonus for the actual stealth roll if they try to pull of a master thief maneuver. The general stealth roll for me would be a +DEX to represent them nimbly avoiding anything that might give them away. On a 7-9 they raise suspicion and on a 6- they are spotted. This of course only covers simple situations of “move from point a to point b without being seen”, every other situation would need to be improvised because you just can not cover every possible idea through basic rules.
Agreed if nothing else, Defy Danger with Dex roll or might make it easier if ranger or thief leading group.
They have a good reason to be able to sneak? Good, then they sneak. They don’t have a good reason? Maybe defy danger to set up the situation to allow sneaking (distractions, plans, whatever).
Stealth in DW is pretty straightforward.
/subadub
As others have said – Defy Danger is your move here. Use the stat appropriate for how the player describes “how” the character is avoiding detection.
At our table stealth is handled through fiction; if your quiet, nimble, and lightly armored you can probobly sneak around provided there is cover or shadows or no one actively looking for an inflitrator. If it’s noon, you’re wearing plate armor, and guards are looking for you, then you’re in trouble.
I try to avoid “passive” trigger rolls. Sneaking in my opinion is not “active” enough for Defy Danger. When you are in stealth mode there may be potential danger but not active danger in which to defy. When I have a character sneaking it either works, due to the circumstances and their fictional description, or something else occurs that then triggers a move.
Say, for example the elven ranger is sneaking down a dark alley behind the inn. It’s dark, he’s an elf in leather, and he frequently hides and tries to be undetected. So far the fiction warrants success. But then the back door to the kitchens is flung open and a fat old cook steps out to dump a pot of hot dishwater in the alley. NOW, we have a danger to defy and out come the dice. This situation is not only more “active” but also suggests greater options for 7 – 9 results.
In a nutshell that’s how I handle stealth, it works fine unless something occurs that requires you to respond to “What do you do?”
Can’t +1 John Lewis enough
Alfred Rudzki , lemme help 😉
John Lewis has the gist of it. If you want more detail, you really should check out Bastien Wauthoz’s link above. I know many people are not comfortable with it, but not everything triggers a player move. You don’t need a strength check to bust down a door, you don’t need a stealth check to sneak past a guard. Encourage them to say what they do with confidence, then add to that or ask questions (i.e. make GM moves) that challenge them fictionally. Simply saying “make your roll or you can’t do that” leads to very boring conversation, and simply getting spotted is very close to “you don’t bash down the door and can’t progress.”
(Also remember, a miss is not the same as a “failure.” There is no GM move “the character fails.” Try giving them what they want, then choosing the best possible GM move to mess with them…maybe even offscreen! “Wait, I rolled a miss, why did nothing bad happen?” GM only smiles…the King himself just woke up with a bad feeling about his favorite guard being killed.)
Make sure that in the narrative, if they do roll a 7-9, it’s no just “the guard gets suspicious”, but something like stepping on a twig, scuffing a pebble, etc..
Sebastian Meid oh man, weak sauce — on a 7-9 give them a hard choice, a compromise, or something worse. None of this “oh you step on a twig and the guard is suspicious or whatever.” Bring the threat, make things complicated! Make them do something!
A 7-9 is fundamentally a success. They successfully do whatever the sneaky shit was, or you put it in their hands to screw it up by offering a choice of some kind.
On top of that: soft and hard moves flow from the fiction, triggered by the dice — they don’t flow from the dice. On a 7-9, while the obvious choice is to say oh no something is wrong with your stealthing! that is by no means the only thing to do! Make something completely unrelated happen if you’ve got the game prep/notes/player input for it!
Maybe they’re sneaking, get a 7-9, and they’re not noticed and everything is great — but you reintroduce their hated rival way off their course! Soft move: Offer a reward with cost!
Can also just go with the 7-9 where all is good with the sneaking but now the guard changes patterns, goes to look at some.spots where the characters are not yet but if ahead & needing another skill check, they don’t want to fail. Alternatively on a 10+ roll they get lucky in another way where the guards or guards & important npcs are walking by either important or world building info while a really low roll might pass on some bad news overheard while sneaking.
As others have said, Defy Danger is not “simply the move” because there are so many different things that can happen. Just shortcutting directly to a Defy Danger move takes a lot of other options off the table.
Also, beware. Stealth in Dungeon World flamewar incoming.
Tim Franzke I DISAGREE BECAUSE REASONS
There are a lot of ways to do stealth. They are all valid in different games and under different circumstances. Fictional resolution, defy danger, custom moves – all good.
And that is fine
(meaning Alfred Rudzki )
Thanks everybody! This helps! Just realized that I should ask more questions about how they’re sneaking and their specific method and intention and the fiction arises from that quite nicely.