I’m reading through Fate Core right now, and I was like “hey they have a list of skills?” and was then put down a little because I generally think skill lists are restrictive.
Then I saw Fate Accelerated Edition, in which the skills are replaced by the six stats Careful, Clever, Flashy, Forceful, Quick and Sneaky.
The core system only support four general types of actions; Create Advantage, Overcome, Attack and Defend. I can’t really see how this system would play much differently than any *World game, except for the system being more “generic”.
Thoughts?
PbtA in general doesn’t come with fate points /bennies of any kind
No, that does seem to be the primary diference
In fate you can make things true that are outside of your characters reach or knowledge
Yes, by spending Fate Points, right?
Exactly
In what way does that differ from the principle “ask questions and use the answer”?
The questions are to the characters and their experience and knowledge. It also means you have to actively do that as a GM. In fate you can just state something out of your characters knowledge or experience and make it true if you pay for it. That’s really different.
To be honest I already know that. But I deem the difference is a rather philosophical one. If you play it “right” then your players create the gaming world in both games. I think the difference is that in Fate you need to “power” this with fatepoints whereas in Dungeonworld this stems from the GM principles and is something you are entitled to be capable of as a player.
I think it’s a big difference whether you can only state things from inside your character but that’s just me.
I can, in fact, see your point.
Next thing: Compels feel very differently then missed moves. Both drive the story into a “negative” direction but with compels there is a lot more tabletalk and meta discussion.
By the way, there doesn’t need to be meta talk or out of character manipulation in Fate… everything can be done entirely in character with 1 simple change: https://plus.google.com/110110374841646652137/posts/62DKt3TTtPi
I was reading FAE and making the same comparison. I think the real difference between the games is the tone and how the mechanics reinforce it in play.
In AW you can fail, succeed with complications, or succeed. Other mechanics (putting NPCs in the crosshairs, etc) point those results in a grim direction.
In Fate, you can fail, tie (which often seems like a mild success in context), succeed, or succeed with style- and then you can modify results with Fate points. The scale is shifted heavily toward winning, which fits the themes of the game.
Tim Franzke There’s no rule that you cannot aim questions at the players in DW. A lot of the choices you have to make on a partial success are often directed at the player, not the character.
When Discerning Realities for example, I have a hard time seeing how it is the character choosing the questions.
Kasper Brohus, adress the characters, not the players.
Yes, of course, address the characters. But that doesn’t mean that everything is the character’s decision.
The player makes the choice, we see the effects through the character. In the fiction, the character would not often face the choice.
why can’t it be?
Because you are the player and as a player you make the choice, everything else would be ridiculous, really.
but you can adress the character and create the impression it comes from the character.
I know the character doesn’t exist.
Really, do you? 😉 You are totally right here, for adressing the character not the player is one of the great storytelling-related assets of DW. But the creative power of world-building lies within the player not the character. The character is just a fictional inhabitant of the fictional world which the players and the GM create while playing the game (for real).
Because it isn’t the character that decides whether or not he learns the answer to “what is about to happen” or “what here is valuable to me”. It is the player. The answer is then given to the player, as it is perceived by the character.
Kasper Brohus it’s the difference between “i look through this stuff to see what is valuable” and “i will jump on this stone to be a lookout”. You can trigger DR with the intent to get a specific question.
Yes, but when you then roll that 10+ you get two additional questions. These are sometimes (but not always) hard to justify as a “character choice”.
Kasper Brohus On a 10+ Discern, if the player is stuck, I usually say “okay, we know your top choice, what other two would your character be naturally inclined to notice? Is she always on the lookout for a gold and money? Or fearful and prepared?” etc.
There are a few points in DW where the players get to make choices about the world, beyond their character, without the GM’s invitations (Cleric’s deity) but there aren’t many. Fate on the other hand has fate points that allow this on a pretty regular basis.
My general impression is that Fate is more aimed at promoting the elements of a story, whereas DW/AW is more aimed at creating a totally loaded situation from which story may form.
Dammit Tim Franzke! You had to get support from Sage, didn’t you?
Sage LaTorra So you mean it as the character deciding what he wish to learn? Or more like what he tries to find out?
Kasper Brohus I ask the player about their character’s passive preferences. I guess that I kind of assume that some people are more likely to pick up on certain things. So I ask the player, if their character has already got all the information they actively pursued, what else might they pick up on?
Sage LaTorra Gotcha. I still think it’s more of a “player choice” than a “character choice” though. It’s not like the character is presented with a list of questions and is asked to pick three. Unless your game is really, really weird 🙂
Kasper Brohus as we note in the rules, those are the questions the GM will answer, but not the only ones the players can ask. A player can totally say “my guy would always be on the lookout for a way out” and I as the GM can think “that sounds like “what here is useful or valuable to me?”” and answer appropriately: “well, there’s no sneaky way out, but you do notice that some of the crates aren’t actually sealed. You could probably hide in them. It wouldn’t get you out, but it might buy some times while the patrol comes through.”
I’ve played and run both Spirit of the Century (Fate powered) and Dungeon World. They certainly feel different in play. (It’s possible Fate Core significantly changes things; I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.)
Fate is really assuming the more traditional idea that the GM shows up with a completed world. Sure, players can create or change parts of the world with mechanics, but the decision to do so falls on the players. In practice it’s used for relatively small things and almost uniformly to provide the PCs with an advantage. There is also world creation during character creation, but it stops there. As a GM you take the world created during creation and build, largely on your own, from there. This is the traditional “GM creates, players discover” model.
Dungeon World wants me to “leave blanks” and “ask questions and use the answers.” As the GM I’m pushing for player creation, forcing them into it. Answers frequently, maybe even usually, lead to putting the PCs into a disadvantage. And while I create a fair amount as a GM, I’m frequently surprised by the elements added to the campaign.
Sage LaTorra maybe it’s just me but this was actually rather enlightening. I ‘ve never seen it like this but it makes totally sense.
Alan De Smet’s experiences closely match mine.
Igor Holland-Moritz glad I could help!