Soooooo… Misses on Aid or Interfere… How do you deal with them? It’s one of those times where I want to make soft moves on the players.
I fear making the move too hard discourage team work. How do you guys deal with it? I feel aiding is “too risky” in this game, especially if you only get +1 from bonds, and to some extend even +2, the latter still having a solid 16.7% chance of resulting in a miss, and a 41.7% chance of having unwanted side-effects.
All in all, there’s only a 41.7% chance of helping your body out, and even then, if he had a +2 bonus to the roll (now +3), he still has a 8.33% chance to get a miss, which in experience crops out nine times out of ten…
-1 ongoing until the PC admits his or her mistake and apologises.
I think the move you make should be determined by the risks they are taking by helping. If they want to help without taking a major risk, they should find safer ways to help.
I know that there should be a risk of some sort, and I am growing ever fonder of avoiding the traditional “you fail” paradigm. However; sometimes the player would prefer that one, even if the result is quite boring.
I don’t want Aid or Interfere to be more trouble than it’s worth. I want to encourage teamwork. I want a miss to be interesting, but worth the risk.
It really helps if you let the player decide to help AFTER seeing the result of the roll they are helping. Then they never make a meaningless help roll.
That might be beneficial, even though it feels a little meta-gamey.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I really, really don’t like rolling to aid another. I think, if you help, you help and then you share in the fate of the person rolling. If you have bond or hx with the person you help, you give a +1. If you don’t have hx/bond +1 or higher, then your help fictional positioning only. That and you get to share in their fate.
It seems like extra rolling… rolling to see if you get to add +1 or -1 to another roll. Kinda like how initiative is rolling to see when you get to roll. But maybe I have trouble tying it into the fiction well enough.
Well, I want the roll to be there, I just want to know what others do to encourage the use of Aid or Interfere. How do you balance the risk/reward ratio, when a hit doesn’t even assure the success of the guy you try aid?
I’m a firm believer in playing a game RAW the first time you let it hit the table, but as soon as I’m ready to hack the game, mike atlin’s approach may be new approach. Just have to make it work for hinder.
Generally, as Dylan Boates said, I’ve seen Aid used after the roll was made. I think that makes it worth it. You might fail, but at least if you try it and are successful, you know you are doing some good.
Aid/interfere misses are an odd thing. I use both the fiction and the aided/interfered player’s roll when deciding on my move. If the aider and the aided both roll misses, I make them both hurt with a hard move. If the aider misses but the aided gets a 10+, I sometimes go easy and make a soft move on the aider.
One thing I’ve realized is that since Aid/Interfere is the only move that uses the social connection of the PCs (Bonds), I try to incorporate their bond, or some other kind of social problem, into my hard and soft moves. If the Thief misses while trying to Aid? Maybe his bag spills open for the party to see all the treasure he’s been hoarding. If the Paladin is trying to interfere with the Cleric, maybe the Paladin sees a vision of the Cleric’s god protecting the Cleric; now the Paladin is Confused (debility) until he can make peace with this vision.
On a recent missed Aid roll, I simply asked the aided player, “What’s the most embarrassing thing that could happen to [aiding PC] right now?”
So when you Aid/Interfere and know what the other roll is, you’ll only do it if the other person rolled a 6 or a 9, correct (for aid)? Otherwise, what’s the point, right?
Exactly. Unless others can Aid as well.
Parker Emerson I’ve done it both ways, actually. When a player is describing how he’s helping someone, I make him roll first. Fiction triggers moves right? Sometimes I’ll let someone jump in and Aid when a 6 or 9 is rolled, but not always–it really depends on whether it makes sense that the other PC would notice the failure about to occur.
Also… failure still earns XP. That’s a mighty nice carrot anyway.
I mostly play via pbp, so it would be quite difficult to roll the Aid first. If I had never played this way, I’d probably want the Aid rolled first, but it’s already been done, so it seems fine with me, but yeah, the mechanics follow the fiction, so you are right to do it that way.
XP should always be a consolation. I gift for the loser. I forget who said it, but it’s golden: If players are happy on a 6-, the hard moves aren’t hard enough.
From my experience, I really love seeing players dig deep narratively, striving to figure out how they can aid someone who rolled a 5. It entwines everyone into a fantastic hot mess of Hard Moves.
I’m not saying they should be happy, but isn’t the idea that it should take the sting out sufficiently that they’re willing to risk it?
It should absolutely take some of the sting out of the hard moves. But my point is that the hard moves should actually sting.
Instead of, “Woohoo! I get to mark XP!”
This: “EEP! At least I get to mark XP.”
the one time AID came up in our session this weekend i had both characters make their rolls for the action simultaneously.
our party were in a pit and the ranger was trying to climb out, and the barbarian offered a leg-up. so when they both failed – they landed in a pile and the consequence went to the barbarian who failed more.
i reckon that in that sort of case the fiction then determines any consequence that is ongoing.
I’d really love to hear Sage LaTorra’s and Adam Koebel’s thoughts on this…
If it makes sense fictionally that someone could see things going badly and help, they can aid after the roll. I’m pretty generous with this.
The consequences of a missed aid roll depend on the situation. On a 6- you make as hard a move as fits. If that’s a soft move, go for it.