I just posted a minor revision of the Barbarian.

I just posted a minor revision of the Barbarian.

I just posted a minor revision of the Barbarian. The only mechanical change is to the appetites: you now get some complication when the d6 is greater than the d8 (instead of vice versa). Other than that, a few typo fixes, and that’s it. It’s now up-to-date with the changes we know we want to make, at least (though we may come up with more changes).

All existing links point to the new one now, BTW. 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3269630/Barbarian.pdf

28 thoughts on “I just posted a minor revision of the Barbarian.”

  1. Okay, “My Love For You Is Like A Truck” is just awesome. ¬†Unfortunately, I think the next line isn’t quite the tone that DW is going for…

  2. The next line is a different move:

    If you and another character have sex, you take +1 forward. At your option, they take +1 forward too. (Requires: My Love for You is Like a Truck)

  3. Here’s some problem i have about the barbarian, i would gladly hear from anyone the reasons for the point below as why they are what they are in the present class.

    1 – Why does the barbarian has less starting HP than the fighter and paladin?

    2 – Why does the barbarian has a lower Load than the bard, the thief and most other classes?

    3 – Is Unencumbered, Unharmed supposed to be as good as Full Plate and Packing Steel? Basically, it grant +1 armor when you practically nude which i agree is good, but in other context it becomes useless as it doesn’t even stack with a shield. I think that a proper modification would be to allow it to stack with other armor as long as you’re unencumbered, this way you’re choice would be to either gains +1 armor or remove the clumsy tag of heavy armor.

    4 – I’ve compared the starting gear of the barbarian with the other classes and it start with less options. First the two-handed sword should be a longsword since per the rules two-handed swords don’t exist (at least not without weapon customization). Secondly, their should be a Defenses choice (chainmail or scale) and an additional choice (lets say adventuring gear and dungeon ration OR a shield).

  4. If you’re taking suggestions, might I suggest upgrading the Barbarian’s gear choices to include gear that actually has the clumsy tag?(chain mail doesn’t) Also, if you’re doing that, I’d upgrade “Unencumbered, Unharmed” to +2 armor(that’s what scale mail has).

    Also I believe you mentioned considering upgrading the HP to 12? I’d very much support such a move, or atleast upgrading it to 10. Right now they’ve got a maximum of 8+Constitution hp and 1 armor, which is… kind of squishy compared to when a starting fighter or paladin walks into the fray with 10+Constitution hp and 3 armor. And since they’ve got “What Are You Waiting For?” as a starting move, it’s a very dangerous combination unless you play very soft with your moves.

  5. “When you take your last breath, on a 7‚Äď9 you make an¬†

    offer to Death in return for your life. If Death accepts he will return you to life. If not, you die.”

    This sounds awesome, but worries me. In my opinion, one of the great strengths of DW is that players rarely feel like the GM screwed them over. Misses, partial successes and exploiting golden opportunities are fair ways to let something bad happen. When the life or death of the character depends on GM opinion about the deal proposed by the player…

    I suppose it’s just there to avoid players proposing deals that aren’t¬†inconvenient¬†to them in any way, and a GM following the agenda won’t screw someone, but I still feel¬†uncomfortable.¬†

    What about “If Death accepts he will return you to life. If not, Death will offer you a HARD bargain. Take it and stabilize or refuse and die.”

  6. André Rodrigues in either case here, the GM is the one who drives how hard the bargain is. The GM is always the one who says what Death does, which could mean offering an impossible bargain.

    In practice, I love this move because the player always offers something tougher (and more awesome) than I would have.

  7. I do love the idea, it just got me thinking about how the consequences to the game. It does fit with the whole ethos of player-driven themes and adventures.

    Have you ever said no to a barbarian’s offer?

  8. Simon Landry 

    1. Because the fighter and paladin defend others, but the barbarian leads the charge. 

    2. Because the barbarian is a traveler, a nomad. They are by definition from somewhere else. I don’t imagine Conan carrying around his tent, backup sword, etc. He makes his home where he pleases and fights with whatever’s at hand.

    3. You’re trading carrying several weight of items at all times for 1 armor no matter what. I think it’s a fair trade. The armored barbarian is going to take less damage, but use up a lot of their load with the basics. The unarmored barbarian is more flexible, but (around) 2 armor lower. See also my point above about the barbarian not being a defender of the weak.

    4. Wait, two-handed swords don’t exist? From the equipment chapter: “The stats below are for typical items.”¬†

    We do intend to give the barbarian a starting option of chainmail, so they can make the most of Full Plate and Packing Steel.

    There’s no requirement that every class have a similar gear list. There’s already a fair amount of variation. The barbarian is a nomad, travelling light, living from the land. They don’t need more stuff (and if they decide they do, they just take it).

  9. John Doe¬†Yeah, adding heavy armor to start is something we’ll do, oversight that it wasn’t there to begin with.

    The HP though: the barbarian isn’t the fighter. They aren’t there to soak up damage and defend others, they’re there to lead the charge. The highest HP classes have that HP because a portion of their HP is essentially there for others‚ÄĒso that when they defend they can take a hit for someone else, essentially.

  10. André Rodrigues nope! They always do something really rough for themselves. 

    Part of that is the bargaining factor: if you have one chance to save your life you’d better make sure you offer something good.

    Part of that is just the tendency of a lot of players to make trouble for themselves.

  11. Sage LaTorra I… Kind of don’t follow you here. “What Are You Waiting For?” kind of implies that if you’re leading the charge into battle, you’re going to get the heat. A lot of heat. So it won’t be a matter of the barbarian needing to defend someone else, but himself. And as is, he has the same amount of hp as a Ranger and less armor.

    If you don’t plan to give the Barbarian any more hp, I’d definitively give the poor guy at least some more starting armor and some +armor moves like the other classes.

    Unless the idea, of course, is to have them really make use of “The upper hand” each session.

  12. John Doe¬†The barbarian can indeed draw the heat, because they’re provocative, not because (like the paladin and fighter) they’re a wall of defense. The best use of What are you waiting for? is when the barbarian and fighter are back to back and they can work together.¬†

    Having high HP and armor is a class feature for the paladin and fighter. If the barbarian gets their HP and armor along with all their other cool stuff… I don’t see why everyone wouldn’t just play barbarians?

    The barbarian as a class is about being powerful and not caring about the consequences. If the barbarian feels as safe as the fighter and paladin we’ve done something wrong.

    The barbarian already has +armor moves, through multiclassing. Just pick up Iron Hide and then Steel Hide to have 3 armor while (if you want) naked. That’s pretty awesome!

    I’m just curious about the “poor guy” comment: have you actually had a barbarian get beat up to a degree that a fighter or paladin wouldn’t?

  13. Sage LaTorra I’ve only run one game with a barbarian in it so far because the main group I play with is currently rotated to a different GM, but the one game I did run with didn’t go too well for the Barbarian. Admittedly, it didn’t have a fighter. The party was Barbarian/Thief/Ranger/Cleric. It was a innsmouth

    -alike where the town was all secretly sahuagins being mindcontrolled by a mindflayer. Barbarian and Thief cooked up the idea that the barbarian would charge in so the thief could shankpoison the mindflayer during the distraction(he was appearing as a king, entertaining merchants). Barbarian entered battle with a 12, so he definitively got EVERYONE’s attention. Normally I’d be making hard moves left and right in a situation like this (ie: Barbarian has left his back exposed, if you don’t get in there he’ll be hurting, Barbarian’s lust for destruction has toppled the support of the building he’s fighting under, better clear a path so he can get out) but I had to back off because he was on the verge of death after two rolls of 8. The Thief and the Ranger both had to join the brawl themselves to get him clear of the chaos so they could all retreat. After that the ranger pointed out that he atleast had two armor with his wolf helping him, so when they came back later they had the ranger jumping out of a carriage wheeled into town while they hopped out after, the barbarian mainly being concerned with watching the ranger’s back.

    I’m fairly sure a starting fighter could withstand that a bit better(and if he couldn’t, he could always take his armor move and then multiclass for another). The only thing that really keeps the barbarian afloat is their hunger, since it keeps their rolls higher than average. And a Paladin can do that with a wisdom roll by second level too. All in all the situation was ridiculous to me, so I’ve houseruled that if anyone ever plays a barbarian again they get 10hp, scalemail, and I wrote up a 2-5 move that gives them +1 armor if they have less than full hp.

  14. Sage LaTorra¬†Two-handed weapons totally don’t officially exist and this needs to be fixed, seriously.

    I’ve been letting Fighters take their sig weapon as two-handed in exchange for getting Huge as a free sig weapon ability, but it would be nice to get an idea of how you’d do it.

    Also, Andr√© Rodrigues, Death doesn’t just hear your offer and then immediately refuse, it’s a player/GM conversation. It’s bargaining. If you make a shit offer, Death can counter-offer or ask you to lower your price! It shifts the initiative of the offering in Last Breath to the player, which means more opportunities for something left-field and awesome to show up.

  15. Alex Norris what? From the book:

     

    Under General Equipment Tags:

    “Two-handed: It takes two hands to use it effectively.”

    Under Weapons:

    Staff close, two-handed, 1 coin, 1 weight

    Halberd reach, +1 damage, two-handed, 9 coins, 2 weight

    The weapon list in the book is not exhaustive. It’s a starting point.

  16. Sage LaTorra: sorry! I’m being bad at saying what I mean.

    Yeah, there’s a two-handed tags and there are some two-handed weapons – what I meant is, can we have some rules for greatswords and taking a two-handed signature weapon, pretty-please? ūüôā

    (Like, official rules, from designers who are better than me. +1 damage seems a bit weak for using a greatsword over a longsword, for example.)

  17. The fighter can take this option:

    Large: +1 damage, but two-handed.

    Greatsword is probably¬†close, +2 damage, two handed, 20 coins, 3 weight. Or maybe 2 weight. Depends who made it, I’d guess.

  18. Sage LaTorra Regarding bigger 2-handed weapons, you also have a cool tag that you don’t use very much in the book called “Awkward”. Might be a good time to use it?

  19. John Doe¬†I might give that to the bastard sword, but not the fighter’s signature weapon.

    But seriously guys, just because I said it (or Adam) doesn’t mean it’s any better than what you can come up with. Want more two-handed weapons? Make them up! The tools are yours.

  20. Sage LaTorra Oh, definitively not a Signature Weapon. But surely on anything else, especially if it’s got +2 damage. I know if I had a weapon lying around that had +2 damage without a caveat like that my fighter would start to feel like his signature weapon was being overshadowed.

  21. The barbarian also gets stuff like Indestructible Hunger and A Good Day To Die, which can help keep them up and deadly.

    I love, love, love this class.

  22. I love the concept, but I think the hangup folks have here might be the idea that a big musclebound guy who lives rough in the wild is going to be, all else equal, pretty physically resilient and able to carry a heavy load.  Maybe cramming what are basically behavioural requirements into the mold of physical restrictions feels a mite awkard?

    In that light, I’d humbly suggest the following-

    HP = 10 + constitution

    Load = 10 + Str

    Get rid of Full Plate And Packing Steel and Unencumbered, Unharmed.  Replace with the following:

    Catlike Grace/Light On Your Feet

      While carrying less than half your Load, you gain +1 Armor or ignore the clumsy tag (your choice).

    Wherever I May Roam

      When you Undertake a Perilous Journey, take +1 to relevant rolls, and if you travel alone, you may take two roles.  You may only do so while carrying less than half your Load.

    …Or something similar. ¬†The idea being that barbarians can carry a buttload of stuff, including the protective armour that would be a fighter/paladin’s defensive advantage, but simply prefer not to.

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