The Druid’s “Shapeshifter” move seems really super powerful – pretty much any land a druid chooses will contain animals that can allow them to:
* Shapeshift into something dangerous (e.g. a bear)
* Shapeshift into something small/stealthy (e.g. a rat)
* Shapeshift into something airborne (e.g. a hawk)
This allows them to dominate combat, stealth, scouting/recon… I’ve had a druid player use it for all these things in a single session, which I feel may have made some of the other party members feel a little disenfranchised.
How do you go about limiting the move, or am I playing it wrong? One thing I’m not sure about is the move(s) that the GM creates for their new form. I would always base it around what the player was aiming to achieve by shapeshifting, but I never made it a fully defined move (no roll, no 10+/7-9, etc) – just a thing that the player could do a limited amount of times in their new form.
One thing that I feel made it hard on my part was not seeming to have many/any opportunities to make moves to endanger or hinder them while they were shapeshifted – e.g. shifting into a hawk to get a bird’s eye view of the area… Once they succeed the shapeshifting roll and fly up into the sky, where do my opportunities to make moves emerge?
There are a bunch of #druidweek posts talking about Shapeshifter. The best bit I remember about them is about making up animal moves:
• give them what they want (bear: fuck shit up)
• give them something obvious (bear: shrug off a blow)
• give them something unexpected (bear: follow your nose)
There is no such thing as an overpowered playbook in DW. Any skill in the game can be overpowered if the GM is too permissive.
goblins and others will gladly shoot a hawk out of the sky for a meal.
Put another in harms way results can be useful to make moves on them
Push them to spend their Holds, or push them to change forms
terrritorial animals won’t share their range with an invader as they could see the druid as being.
There’s a Druid playbook variant floating around that limits the animals that be used at the start. This forces the player to chose those animals before playing. Over time, they can learn to change into new animals. It seems like a great solution to me.
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Player Shapeshifts into a mouse to stealth? Shame there’s a hungry cat/hawk/owl/other in the same neck of the woods..
Eric Duncan I struggled to find opportunities where I could legitimately make a move (DW is pretty clear about when the GM gets to make a move) while the player was shapeshifted if there was nothing else going on.
If it’s the middle of combat and rolls are happening thick and fast, there will no doubt be a 7-9 or a 6- from some player that I can use to direct something towards a shapeshifted character, but if they’re getting a view of the castle defenses as a hawk while the party chills in the woods below, there didn’t seem to be any opportunity for me to make a move…
I do things a bit differently with the hold part of the move. Rather than coming up with animal moves, I just tell Druid players “Whenever you do something in an animal form that you couldn’t have done in your human form, that uses up a hold.” I find that makes things much easier for me and my players, as we don’t have to interrupt the game to come up with appropriate animal moves.
As for the move being “overpowered”, I largely agree with the other comments here. Let the player do awesome things with the move! That’s why they chose the Druid in the first place, right? The player is also risking a 6- result every time they change shape, which should give you more opportunities to make GM moves.
All that being said, I have taken a player aside and asked them to reign it in a bit. The Druid’s player loved turning into giant dinosaurs, pretty much dominating any combat situation. I moved things inside more often, reducing the opportunity for them to change into something huge, but I could see the other player (it was only a two player game) felt a bit disappointed.
If things get really out of hand, take the player aside and just remind then that they need to share the spotlight. Don’t take away or limit what makes their character awesome though. Just ask them to be a bit more aware of others at the table.
Greg Baatard scouting even as a mouse or hawk is defying danger.
Flying far from allies who are on the move or at a camp but not in a very familiar area. Well now the druid is enganing the overland journey rules. Too bad he can’t cover all three roles…
Or they spend hold on those things.
The more I think about it, the more I realise that I’m likely just failing to be a fan of the character, and that it’s not as much of an issue as I make it out to be – Scouting is about the only act that the druid can do in relative safety and with relatively few chances of complications… and that’s fine. It’s a good opportunity to show the strength of the class.
Any other situations will have additional roll requirements – hack n slash for the bear to swipe at foes, defy danger for the rat to sneak across the room unnoticed, etc.
A creative Druid player can overshadow some other classes (like flying over walls or slithering past a trap, making the thief look useless at times). One remedy is to offer another playbook like the Spider or Skeleton instead of the Druid. Another is to make harder moves when they fail a Shapeshift roll, like forgetting they’re not an animal for a few days.
I had a druid in my campaign who never turned into an animal. She instead took the abilities that let her talk to inanimate natural things.
Completely ruined my mystery-sleuth adventures:
“There’s been a murder.”
“I ask the floor who did it. “
“Dammit, Alicia!”
“Who did it?”
“A human” / “A living thing” / “Something that moves”
Rocks tend to be very different in their perception of the world 😛
Oscar Iglesias “I could not see, for I have no eyes.”
I will give a clue, Benjamin Kramer , because I’m a fan of the adventurers and I love to see them using their powers. But I will try to give an interesting response. Not a final statement, not something meaningless.
“I could not see, for I have no eyes. But the one who was here wore the mark of my distant cousin, the blue ice mountain”
A little bit off topic but sometimes i really don’t know what to do when a druid fails sometimes as the roll happens at weird times. For example in woods where nothing much is going on they just want to scout ahead…my gm brain tells me they shouldn’t roll then but obviously dw says they have to roll since they are shapeshifting.
Any help on this issue?
Dont roll 😛
Uh thats not how moves work in dungeon world, for shapeshifting, casting a spell and a lot of class moves you always roll no matter the fiction
Is failure interesting? If not: don’t roll.
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Fiction is always first.
If theres no interest in a given roll just ignore it. Allow the player to do whatever is trying and move along.
Rolling just because you want the hear the dice makes no sense. Success is what the player is looking for, and you don´t see any interest in Fails … so, let him shapeshift, scout, and return with the group.
Anyway, if you want to roll and a Fail arise, just go for interesting moves. Foresee danger (Theres smoke in the horizon), cause trouble (you’re stick in your bird form.. dont know how to shapeshift back), or whatever seems interesting.
Eh, I only force rolls when it’s part of the immediate action. If the players are spending 3 hours preparing to enter a cave and the wizard says he wants to cast light during that time, then there’s no real sense in rolling.
As for shapeshifting though, there’s always an interesting failure – partial shapeshifting. “You manage to turn into a hawk, but are so focused on the wings you’ll need to scout ahead that you end up with your face and feet in miniature on the hawk’s body!”
Chris Stone-Bush I like that. I have a slightly alternate route to solve the same issue: the given moves will always be the same moves, so only need to be thought up once.
Hmmm DW doesn’t have say Yes or Roll, it has the Fiction says you are doing the move so you roll that move.
So the druid move says:
When you call upon the spirits to change your shape, roll+Wis.
It doesn’t say change your shape and if the GM thinks failure is interesting roll.
There is a good reason for that, without rolling the Druid would be to powerful. A lot of the moves are powerful but they balance out because they have the 6- failure which could cause problems. Also not rolling because there is no danger can lead to a druid player metagaming oh ill just shapeshift when we are in camp and their is no danger and i will be useful later on.
If the GM can’t think of a way that failure would be interesting, there is no point to the roll.
The player can roll the dice, but since the GM can’t think of something to do with the 6- result, they don’t make a GM move, or their move is weak and watered-down.
(This, by the way, is a good indicator that it’s time to take a break from playing.)
I see nothing wrong with the druid shapeshifting in camp when there’s no danger. When the danger presents itself (perhaps as a result of a GM move or another player poking a beehive), the druid could then either be called on to roll for their move, or simply be told “OK, given how long you’ve been hanging around as a dog here in camp, you have one hold remaining on your shapeshifting power. What do you do?”
If we were talking about D&D and other such games where game balance matters, it should be ok.
But this is DW. Fiction goes first. When fiction demands a move players roll for the move. When fiction demands a consequence just narrate it.
The same way combat is not a sequence of initiative, player 1 acts, player 2 acts… but, instead, you narrate the combat as fits interesting. When a situation arise in game you as the GM look what fiction demands. Check the principles. If story asks for the player to just shapeshift…let him do to it. Maybe they are in the middle of a journey and is just an action that applies more flavour to the character and the story.
The rules demand a roll?, maybe. But the story goes first, and the same way you dont roll Hack & Slash sometimes and just roll for damage or even kill the enemy, if anytime the fiction demands a given course of action it takes priority.
Story first. This is not a strategy board game.
I use up their resources and shapeshifter holds are resources. My Druids don’t stay shifted long because I used up their moves/holds quickly. I put them into situations where they have to spend them.
As a gm i love the druid!
My players have a lot of fun with shapeshift, but when they fail and turn into a mindless beast the group realises the steep power X risk ratio.
I’m definitely with Aaron Griffin here. If a move that requires the player to roll is triggered, then the player rolls the dice. So even if the Druid changes their shape when there is absolutely no danger around, the player still rolls the dice.
There are plenty of moves the GM can make if the Druid’s player gets a 6- result. Reveal an unwelcome truth, show signs of an approaching threat, use up their resources, separate them, show a downside to their class, race, or equipment, etc. The GM could advance a Grim Portent as well.
If the triggered move says roll, the player rolls. If the result is a 6-, the GM makes a move.
I’m also of the opinion that the player always rolls for Shapeshift, and on a 6- it’s your job as the GM to make something interesting happen, something that fills their lives with adventure.
In a fight, a 6- result should have all sorts of options. You turned into a bear? Cool, but you shifted so forcefully that you shattered the rafters holding the roof up, or you knocked over the brazier and now shit’s on fire. You turned into a bat to escape? Great, that used up your 1 hold and now you’re gone, and in rage, the ogre snatches Ovid by the collar and throws him at you.
Outside a fight, I think Chris Stone-Bush has it: reveal unwelcome truths, show signs of threats, show downsides. *And you don’t even have to wait for a 6- on those*.
“Yeah, cool, you take to the skies and from this view you can see that the enemy main body of the army is camped over the next ridge, just like you suspected. But uh oh! You also spot a vanguard that appears to be skirting the woods to get behind your party. They’re about to launch a surprise attack, and none of your friends appear to notice. What do you do?”
“Okay, you turn into a snake and start slithering through the rubble. You’re like halfway through when you hear, no feel this impossibly powerful hissing and rumbling, from everywhere at once. It starts to forms words in your mind… come to me come to me COME TO ME like some mighty god-thing of the snakes is commanding you and your new form instinctively responds. Before you know it you starting to slither down through the grate towards that voice… what do you do?”
etc.
If they fail a shapeshift and there is nothing going on at the time for the players, just advance a Grim Portent or create a new one. Not every failure has an immediate effect on the players.
How I handle the Druid’s “Shapeshifter” since it isn’t a Polymorph spell, and it is actually shifting a shape, is to add a minus modifier in the roll depending on the difference in size change.
They do mention +/- 1-3 modifiers in the DW book. So the modifier is basically on the size category the Druid is trying to Shapeshift relative to its current regular humanoid size.
I.E. very tiny/very large would be a -3 (Mouse or Bear) If you have a 100 lb Druid trying to shift into a 300+ lb Bear or a 1 lb Mouse that is a challenge (-3 to the Roll). However a 100 lb Cougar is on par no modifier needed.
Also if/when the Druid has an 18 Wisdom and Rolls a +3 Wis, there is no minus to the roll even when it is something really hard (Bear/Mouse) which makes sense as the Druid should be more experienced by then.
It is logical when you think about it, and my all my players like this mechanic even the Druid. 🙂
Also I was going to say it’s not like the Druid shapeshift’s fast when here is a huge variance in size category. This opens up opportunities as well. an enemy is not just going to stand there while someone shifts into a bear.
There is a Druid variant through awful good games. It is awesome and fixes most of the play balance issues.