One of my players mentioned that they did like the frailness of DW characters, his complaint was they could get into one two fights before they were all low in hp. To be fair they dont have a healer at the moment. has anyone played with HP and say given +1 HP at level up, if so did they start to feel too tanky? I dont want D&D HP bloat but maybe a bit of a cushion to show a more experienced character that know tricks to survive. Another thought I had was a second wind custom move that could be done once after a fight to help them out.
One of my players mentioned that they did like the frailness of DW characters, his complaint was they could get into…
One of my players mentioned that they did like the frailness of DW characters, his complaint was they could get into…
Out of curiosity Chris Willhelm, is this player coming from other games where first level PCs are still superheroes? Are they just striding forward into combat like a tank, or are they being a bit more careful?
little bit of bad rolls and a little bit of brashness, to be fair though a DW character has more starting HP that an average level 2 character in D&D (something they are more familiar with). They have the most experience with D&D at midlevels 6-15 so they are used to the bloat i want to stay away from. They had a cleric at one point but he refused to heal and that was a mess, lol.
To be honest I think I may go with the custom move idea that way they have to learn to be a bit more tactical in combat but still give them a little more of high adventure feel.
Why the need for a Second Wind move? Resting lets you recover half your HP.
If anything, I’ve always thought that healing was cheap in DW. Tell him to invest in bandages, and take some time to dress his wounds after a battle. It’s 4×3 hp healing for 5 coins, and 0 weight so you can carry several.
If you don’t have any time to bandage wounds after a fight, obviously you are in a desperate situation, and the low hp reflect that. Thats the time to start using caution as Christopher Stone-Bush suggests.
The reason for a second wind move was to off set them not having a healer to just cure them until he gets it revoked. The adventure that brought it up was time sensitive so that was the reason for no rest. if by resting you mean the Make Camp Move that takes hours and even in a no time critical situation it seems silly to adventure for 4 hours and fight twice then rest for 8 or so.
The point about healing items cost is a good one I will remind them about them.
You only need a few uninterrupted hours of sleep to regain half your HP from the Make Camp move. So you’re not really adventuring for 4 hours, getting your ass handed to you, and then having to rest for 8 hours. Personally I feel that time critical adventures are more tense when healing takes some time.
Also, consider a custom item like a healing staff or crystal or whatever. Make a custom move for the item that will cause it to “shut down” until the group makes camp. This would give them a little extra healing that can be limited and eventually you can break it or take it away when they don’t need it.
Consider killing him for being a whiner…
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adding a second wind mechanic, but think about the impact it will have on your game:
– It will allow the party to do more between Making Camp
– It will make fights less tense, players less cautious
– It will make the party less concerned about resources (bandages, poultices, healing potions, rations), meaning they don’t need to return to a steading as often
– If they can use it during a fight, it will make any given fight much, much less deadly (and they’ll feel it, and be bolder)
– Magic, moves, etc. that grant healing are less impressive/important
To some folks, those 5 points will be like “yeah, gimme!” and to others it will be like the “yuck, no way man!”
If I was going to use a move like this, it’d probably be:
When you have a few minutes of calm to rest and catch your breath, you may choose to set your current HP to 1/2 your maximum HP. You can’t do this again until you Make Camp.
Or they could get a hireling healer?
Its not called a fight because you hit each other with pillows. Don’t like losing HP? Then don’t fight.
Or Fight SMARTER.
Also making pacts with death and Grim World’s Death Moves are AWESOME.
Jeremy Strandberg thats how I was thinking about wording it and making outside combat only, but I am going to remind them about hirelings and the relative cheapness of healing items first before I go that far. They haven’t been in town for a while so I will remind them next time about these options.
Wynand Louw yeah. because killing your fellow players is always a great way to deal with game design discussions.
Oh wait. It is not. Murder is horrible.
have they considered just buying more bandages? I mean, they’re basically out-of-combat second winds in cloth form.
You can also multiclass into some form of damage mitigation or healing ability.
or get a healer hireling.
Or some ranged weapons
You might also consider the moves you’re using as a GM. Deal damage is only one move. You can rip apart their stuff, kill off some nearby NPCs, make them accidentally shoot each other, drag one off to be interrogated…lots of things that are really terrible for the characters that don’t involve dealing damage to them.
Tim Franzke
Sorry I forgot the
You might be focusing too much on grinding as a GM. Whenever players have complained about any aspect of DW, it’s when I’ve been being a lazy GM. If the action scenes sound like, “There’s goblins – ok I run up and attack – roll h&s – ok you do damage and you take damage,” everyone’s gonna be like “Pathfinder was better…”
When you’re giving every monster life, and the thief is getting knocked flying by the troll and buried under rubble, while the wizard is working a ritual to stop the demon prince from breaking through to our world, and the fighter is wading through hell hounds decapitating them left and right, that afterwards everyone is like, “That was awesome, I totally almost ate it, how did we survive?”
Read some of David Guyll’s summaries of his Sundered World games for inspiration. When you let imagination run wild is when DW shines. If it’s just another random battle between one fetch quest and the next, might as well stay home and play WoW.
If the true answer to that is “because the GM rarely did damage us” it cheapens that somewhat though, doesn’t it?
Marshall Brengle I have mentioned nothing else about the game other than a minor question about the mechanics I never said I run fetch games. Half the move you mentioned you can add damage to them, like the troll throwing and then buried under rocks. I would deal damage with that. I have run apocalypse world for other tables and made custom moves to support the tables playstyle and the needs of the adventure. Albeit this is a different game the principals are the same. Your response is based in no factual evidence, in fact they are really enjoying dungeon world they just felt a bit squishy overall. I run a bit grittier than you if you are just going to bury them in rumble with no damage. They usually do barely come out of a fight but that’s the problem they get two fights maybe an adventuring day. I don’t like the tediousness of making camp every other fight because they are so damaged. Comments like that only serve to cheapen the community and cause new players and GMs to reconsider a game choice. Even if say I have only run pathfinder even the newest GM knows that little gem of knowledge about fetch and fight combo.
Chris Willhelm a) quit trying to make “fetch” happen.
B) that is all.
On second thought, c) your ego is getting involved. Not worth it. Marshall gave the very advice i was considering. Don’t deal so much damage, if their complaint is damage. Next time the rocks fall, don’t bury them, separate them. Or bury their sister. Or give them a choice beteen damage or being pinned.
It’s all fiction. You get to decide how hard the moves are, and whether damage follows the fiction.
Make them pine for the days when damage was all they had to fear….
Actually the advice of not damaging as much is fine, presentation is bad. It was talking down with nothing based in fact. I have started to see more comments like this in other google gaming communities where instead of supporting the hobby people are tearing people down with “your doing it wrong you should quit” type comments. It only hurts the community and discourages new players, that’s what bothered me about the comment.
Not talking down to anybody, just copping to my own laziness and times it impacted the fun quotient at my table, and maybe adding some suggestions that being “squishy” can be fun and exciting if everyone makes it that way. When I hear that complaint it’s usually from players with lot of D&D or PF background and I look for ways I can adapt my GMing to help them have more fun. YMMV, not saying anyone’s doing it wrong. People come to tabletop to experience something different from video games and more than anything else reminding myself to turn up the volume on that. Didn’t mean to put you on the defense.
Marshall Brengle
Sounds like you’re trying to defy danger using CHA. Go ahead and roll that up, and let’s find out what happens!
Marshall Brengle thank you for the prompt responce and clarification. I am sorry to vent on you, other communities have had this kind of thing happen maliciously more lately and I have even walked away from game systems because of the community that represents it. I usually don’t say anything about it but I really like DW and would hate to have it come to this community.
Andrew Fish I would call that ^ a 10+ 😉
Chris Willhelm nothing to apologize for, home slice. It’s all in good fun. I tapped the initial out on my mobile over my morning coffee, so entirely possible I came off more prickish than I meant to.