Multiclass move question: To cast spells like a wizard, is it just one multiclass move? So for one move could a bard cast wizard spells too by taking Cast a Spell (wizard)? Or, would you have to take spellbook, prepare spells, and cast a spell (wizard)? I’m assuming the latter (3 moves to cast wizard spells).
Multiclass move question: To cast spells like a wizard, is it just one multiclass move?
Multiclass move question: To cast spells like a wizard, is it just one multiclass move?
One move. This has been discussed before: prerequisite moves are assumed.
Wow, that seems broken. So a 3rd level bard can (eventually) cast pretty much the full list of cleric and wizard spells? Why does the Paladin Divine Favor move go out of the way specify that you get Commune and Cast a Spell (cleric)? If you take Cast a Spell (Cleric) what are considered the prerequisite moves? Deity and Commune? What about Cast a Spell (Wizard)? Spellbook and Prepare spells? Would the bard get extra wizard and cleric spells when leveling up?
“For the purpose of multiclassing, any starting class moves that depend on each other count as one move—the wizard’s cast a spell, spellbook, and prepare spells for example.” Dungeon World, p29 “Multiclass Moves”
It is powerful, but it’s not game ending. In part because that same page says, “If a move from another class refers to your level, count your levels from the level where you first gained a move from that class.”
So a 3rd level bard can (eventually) cast pretty much the full list of cleric and wizard spells?
Well, he’ll only have the Wizard spells he’s specifically added. Assuming multiclass Wizard at 2 and Cleric at 3, he’ll have a spellbook with 4 first level Wizard spells, be able to prepare 3 firts level of Wizard spells and 2 first level Cleric spells. It is pretty powerful, although the bard wlil lag behind the dedicated Wizard or Cleric. My own experiences are this level of imbalance really doesn’t matter in play.
Why does the Paladin Divine Favor move go out of the way specify that you get Commune and Cast a Spell (cleric)?
I’m guessing, but I suspect simplicity, so the Paladin player doesn’t need to look up the multiclass rules to remember.
If you take Cast a Spell (Cleric) what are considered the prerequisite moves? Deity and Commune?
Commune is a clear prerequisite; Cast a Spell doesn’t really work without it. Deity probably isn’t necessary; it’s tied to Divine Guidance, not Cast a Spell. But Deity doesn’t, by itself, grant any benefits (those are in Divine Guidance), so it’s harmless either way.
What about Cast a Spell (Wizard)? Spellbook and Prepare spells?
The rules specifically groups these three together as a single move for multiclassing.
Would the bard get extra wizard and cleric spells when leveling up?
They get Spellbook, which grants a new spell every level.
Thanks. Doesn’t feel right to me, but if those are the rules…
So, to brush off an old D&D braincell, the best way to make a cleric/wizard or mystic theurge type would be to make a bard or maybe a cleric who multiclass dabbles into wizard. There’s no way for a wizard to cast cleric spells, right? (other than expanded spellbook, which gives them one, and only one, spell).
Well you would need high CHA, int and wis. leaving you with little chances for your physical stats.
The cleric can’t multiclass until 6th level, so is always way behind the wizard. That said, I’ve now got three fireball-throwers (wizard, bard and cleric), and I don’t much like it, because it’s overshadowing the wizard somewhat, and I’ll probably disallow multiclassing into already-taken playsheets in future.
Adrian Brooks There’s a game called “old school hack”, where multi-classing into another class requires the consent of the player of that class, if it is “already taken”. I think the same should apply to DW. Especially with the starting class moves, they are just so effective.
I guess my biggest issue is the huge difference in power/utility of some of the moves. A 2nd level bard could be able to cast spells exactly like a wizard one level lower (an ability that gets better with advancement) or “Barkskin” (+1 Armor when feet are on the ground, which stays +1 forever). A 6th level cleric can suddenly cast wizard spells as well as a 5th level wizard. Why can’t a 6th level wizard add spellcasting the abilities of a 5th level cleric?
A cleric would cast like a level 1 cleric. Also the wizard can still cast better because he has spell casting boosting moves. Also ritual.
I’m not arguing the other other abilities. I know taking spellcasting doesn’t give you Counterspell, Ritual, Turn Undead, or whatever else.
The multiclass rule on p95 says “Get one move from another class. Treat your level as one lower for choosing the move.” If you’ve got a 6th level Cleric and choose “cast wizard spells”, you’d treat your level as a 5th level wizard spellcaster; yes?
That’s different than what it says on p29. “If a move from another class refers to your level, count your levels from the level where you first gained a move from that class.” I guess we’re supposed to follow what it says on p29 or am I misunderstanding the apparent contradiction?
“A 6th level cleric can suddenly cast wizard spells as well as a 5th level wizard”
No. A 6th Level Cleric could only take a move available to 5th level Wizard (i.e none of the advanced ones available at 6th level), but (as Tim was trying to say) a 6th level cleric only cast wizard spells as well as a 1st level wizard. As Alan already quoted:
“If a move from another class refers to your level, count your levels from the level where you first gained a move from that class.”
Ah…thanks. Now I get it. Not as bad as I’d thought…still don’t like it though.
Another question..assuming you wait until your level is high enough, does the “assume to have the prerequisite” rule allow you to leapfrog over another basic move? Could a Bard take “Serious Underdog” without having taken “Underdog”?
no
Why not? What’s the difference?
Spellcasting doesn’t work without Prepare Spell
Eldritch Chord is not allowed to be taken without Eldrich Tones. You can’t replace something you don’t have.
“For the purpose of multiclassing, any starting class moves that depend on each other count as one move—the wizard’s cast a spell, spellbook, and prepare spells for example.”
starting moves.
“A move that replaces another move can only be taken if you have the move it replaces already. You lose access to the replaced move and just have the new one. The new move will usually include all the benefits of the replaced one: maybe you replace a move that gives you 1 armor with one that gives you 2 armor instead.”
Why not just make the starting class moves ONE move then? Put all the bits under a single umbrella? (rhetorical question)
I get it. It’s a bad rule (10th lvl Bard can also be a 9th lvl wizard and 8th lvl cleric? Why would anyone want to be a wizard or a cleric in a party with that Bard?), and a messy one IMO, but I get it. Thanks for the feedback.
Jim Buckeridge because a move is a single unit of fiction-to-rules mechanism. It contains a trigger and a response. When you X, do Y. That’s how moves work.
A 10th level bard can definitely have taken both spellcasting moves. The reason to be a Cleric or a Wizard in a party with that Bard is because Clerics and Wizards are awesome and a character is more than the sum of their moves. They function independently of their ability to cast spells and DW isn’t just about what kewl powerz you have – it’s about your character’s place in the world and impact on it.
If the GM treats a Wizard and a Bard with Cast a Spell like they’re the same character, that GM is failing.
Why? Because a Cleric get’s Apotheosis. A Wizard get’s Ritual. Cleric has Divine Guidance and Providence and Divine Invicibility.
Also they are THE CLERIC. Not THE Bard, but THE CLERIC. It’s a totally different way to play.
The Wizard get’s Ritual as i said as well as Know-It-All and Logical. There is Enchanters Soul too.
Also, you are THE WIZARD
Also, I’d ask how these other characters are multiclassing. I mean, if we acknowledge the wizard is THE WIZARD and the cleric is THE CLERIC then I’m wondering how THE BARD is tapping into boundless eldritch powers and miraculous divine retribution.
The fiction is also a huge qualifier in terms of context, and should be doing a lot of the lifting in terms of niche protection.
FYI, we’ve softened the “THE X” thing a little. Classes start singular, because having two fighters to start with is a little weird. After that, feel free to double up if you like.
That said, making each class truly singular is a great easy hack the I totally supoprt.