It’s been 8 sessions, but I think it’s time for my group to quit Dungeon World. The reason is quite simple: not everyone is having fun. I think I’ve complained about this time and time again: there is one D&D player in my group (out of 3 players who played D&D before) who not only refuses to learn the rules properly, but actively challenges them to the point of completely disrupting the game session today.
Me: “Hey, trust me. I’ve done a lot of research into this game. You didn’t even take the time to read the rules, at all. I asked you so many times.”
Him: “Then show me, where does it say that you can make me forget a spell on a 6-. You fail on a 6-. There’s nothing written on the move. Nothing happens.”
And then the argument goes on and on and on.
Ultimately, he thinks DW is stupid and assumes so without reading the book or giving the game a fair chance. He wants to play D&D, and only begrudgingly goes along with DW only because everyone else wants to play DW.
I tried really, really hard to be a good GM for my group. Made a lot of PDFs as quick prompts for myself. We had some really good sessions, but when this sort of thing happens repeatedly, it’s not fun anymore.
In the end, I have to follow the golden rule of tabletop gaming. There’s no point unless everyone at the table is having fun.
So we’re just going to just play Munchkins.
As for me, I’m going to have to satisfy my RPG thirst with single-player. Tides of Numenera is fun so far.
Also, is there a digital table I can join?
It seems to me that not only you tried to be a good GM for your group, but that indeed you have achieved that objective. That player of yours is behaving childishly. On the other hand, even if he tried, nothing guarantees he would like the game anyway. Sometimes this happens. Don’t force it. You need the right group for the right game. There’s no solutions for these issues.
Hope you eventually find the right group of people for DW.
“The reason is quite simple:
not everyone is having funone guy is being an asshat.” Given a choice between stopping playing the game several people like and stopping playing with an asshat who doesn’t give back to the table, the choice seems simple to me. Maybe there are extenuating circumstances.Talk to the group. If the majority want to keep playing DW then your other player is going to have to be left out or stop fighting. Can always alternate game weeks. Currently we’re on a 3 week cycle of D&D, Shadowrun and Savage Rifts. When I finish my Savage Rifts I will run another DW. We have some guys that are really into tactical gaming with minis and some that are more about the story and cool roleplaying moments. Alternating what we play each session keeps everyone happy
You are someone at the table and needs to be happy too
Dump the player…keep the game.
Show him the part where it says the GM gets to make a move on a 6- roll, and then the “Take away their stuff” GM move.
Your player sounds like a “That Guy” from a 4/8chan board, who simply hates having fun and discovering new games, you shouldn’t drop DW, you should drop the player.
If everyone else is having fun, just be up front about it: “Hey, man: so, I know you’re really not having fun, so how about we take a break. The rest of us are going to keep running DW, and we’ll try and make some time for something you would like.” You’re not required to keep playing with miserable folks.
I’ve got a world of Dungeons community if you’re interested.
Also… suggest that he run a DW session.
Yeah man, you seem to enjoy what DW has to offer, and so do most of your players. Run DW for them and run a D&D game for the “asshat”(Lester Ward that was great).
“there is one D&D player in my group (out of 3 players who played D&D before) who not only refuses to learn the rules properly, but actively challenges them to the point of completely disrupting the game session today.”
KICK.
THIS.
PLAYER.
OUT.
What you’re saying is that this one player is ruining the fun for everyone else. And given the behavior you’ve described, what makes you think this or similar behavior will vanish if you use another system?
This happened to me as well. TL;DR: I got a new group. I used Meetup (even going so far as to create a local DW group), reached out to friends who’d never played RPGs, and some who had. I don’t regret it.
You’ve got a problem player who is actively trying to sabotage your game. Changing systems isn’t the answer. Talk to him. If he won’t shape up quickly then he needs to go. Letting people like that impact your group is what leads to good players quitting. Don’t let a problem player drive away good players.
I’d just like to contribute to the chorus. Talk to the group and ask what the majority of the players want, but you are well within your rights as a human to respectfully tell that particular player they aren’t welcome at the table.
I’m with the rest: a disruptive player is not a reason to abandon the system, but to kick the player. Unfortunately my whole group does not appreciate the DW mechanics, so I only get to run it at cons.
But, really, dump the player. Even if you switch back. That kind of player isn’t worth its weight.
Q: Where does it say you can make me forget a spell on a 6-?
A: p19, then p166, p165 & p168.
The rules are quite clear on how that works. The player is belligerent.
Life is too short and there are not enough people willing to GM games anyway.
Talk to your group. If they like DW (and you seem to like DW), dump the player that doesn’t. I’m sure he can find a D&D game somewhere.
That’s not to say D&D is bad. If everyone (and you, the DM) wants to play D&D, by all means play that. D&D is a fun game, play it.
Personally, PbtA games appeal to me because I don’t have to put as much prep into them and I can run with what happens on the table without feeling like any prep was wasted time. Back in my more traditional RPG days, a lot of painstaking prep had to be modified or thrown out the window. I don’t have that kind of time anymore. It’s still fun, but I prefer to put my time in elsewhere.
If you don’t have the time and everyone else wants to switch, the other option is for one of them to run the game and heft that prep burden.
Augh, I feel for you. Had the same thing happen with a Masks game. Tried to switch to Stars Without Number to placate the one player, but that also fell through after two sessions. I’m still not entirely sure what I did wrong, if anything.
My advice for you is to ask the player to leave the game as politely as you possibly can and keep playing the game you want to play.
I know kicking a player sucks, but the reality is that no game run by you is going to make the player happy. Your priorities are too different, and the player is clearly the type of person who A) can’t leave out-of-game resentment at the door, and B) can’t play in good faith. These are not problems a switch in system will fix. In fact, switching systems may only exacerbate them. If the player can’t trust you to competently run a game he doesn’t know well, he will certainly not trust you to competently run a game he does know well. Anytime anything bad happens to this dude’s character, he is going to tell you how he would rule on this issue or tell you what his old DM used to do or whatever power-play bullshit, because he doesn’t trust you to play fair. If you think an unhappy player is bad, try a backseat DM.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, I do want to point out a mistake you made in the example scenario you quoted:
Me: “Hey, trust me. I’ve done a lot of research into this game. You didn’t even take the time to read the rules, at all. I asked you so many times.”
Your intent here is pure, I think, but you’ve communicated it poorly. You’re trying to ask the player to trust you to run the game fairly, but your frustration with the player has bled through to the point that it comes across more like a passive-aggressive version of, “I know how this game works and you don’t, and you’re a bad person for not knowing, and how dare you question me.” You’re placing blame and pulling rank instead of coming to the player as an equal. Which is, y’know, uncool.
To be clear, this isn’t an excuse for your problem player to act like a cockweasel, and I one thousand percent understand your reaction. I would probably blurt out something very similar in that situation. I’m just saying that in the future, we should both try to resist these urges, because they never lead anywhere constructive.
Kick him out. The rest of you are having fun. Don’t allow him to “win” and spoil it.
I too vote for kicking this player out. Not everyone likes every game, which is totally fine, but this person is actively and intentionally ruining the fun for everyone else. That’s a real dickhead move. Drop this player from the group if at all possible.
The Golden Rule of Gaming of everyone at the table having fun includes you along with everyone else.
Hello Dawit Thepchatree! Have you checked out The Gauntlet and The Gauntlet Hangouts G+ community? We host a ton of Indie/Story/PBTA games online.
Sorry man, im in a similar situation, i want to (am?) run a 5e/osr game, but it is devolving into a Monty haul game. Good luck.
He is not wrong. if you are used to playing D&D switching to DW can feel like a bunch of arbitrary GM bullshit.
Because, well, it clearly is. But that is the point of the DW design. If players don’t enjoy that (and it’s clear at least one player doesn’t) you need to talk it through.
Doesn’t mean I defend bad behaviour like disrupting the game.
But in the end you are there to all enjoy the games you play. If that player doesn’t you have to ask the hard question: Do i rather stick to playing DW and remove that person or find a game everyone in the group enjoys.
Eh, I’m with Wright. The problem here isn’t that the player is not enjoying himself, it’s that he’s being an ass twice over – by not giving the game or his GM a fair chance, and by ruining everyone else’s fun with whining instead of, you know, bringing up the problem for an honest discussion and/or bowing out.
Yep it’s not always the GM who can be proactive
basic rule for all game types….GM has final say, you don’t like the call, take your bat and play somewhere else.
sounds like this guy just has an issue he get get pass and needs to move on.