This is such a basic question that it is a bit embarrassing to raise, but the rules and examples in the book really…

This is such a basic question that it is a bit embarrassing to raise, but the rules and examples in the book really…

This is such a basic question that it is a bit embarrassing to raise, but the rules and examples in the book really failed to address this in any meaningful way.

You have a large, powerful, high defense Earth Elemental. It is the only opponent. The party attacks it using hack & slash and volley.

The first player attacks, rolls an 8. He does damage, the Earth Elemental does its damage back.

The second player attacks…. what now?

As I see it there are three possibilities.

a) The Earth Elemental moves at hyper-sonic speed, an enemies speed is always increased by a factor equal to the number of opponents.

b) Because the Earth Elemental is smashing player 1, it is now helpless against all other players who needn’t even roll to do their damage.

c) Just like the rule for multiple monsters, regardless of how much or how little damage PCs would normally do, they just add a +1 bonus for damage to the initial player’s damage roll.

d) You aren’t supposed resolve the first action until every player has chosen their move. Only one player actually rolls Hack & Slash, everyone else uses Aid Another. And regardless of how many other players aid, the actual player taking the risk of being damaged only gets a +1.

A related question– what do you do when you have 7 monsters and 5 PCs? Do you divide the monsters up between the PCs and decide which are trying to do damage to which PCs and the PCs can only attack their own opponents? Do the PCs take the risk of being damaged by whichever opponent they attack and the opponent always gets a +6 bonus?

If the enemies are 3 Kobolds, 2 Orcs and an Ogre, does this mean that the Orcs and Ogre do nothing more than having just another Kobold so long as the PCs only attack the Kobolds?

None of these options seem particularly satisfactory. It would also be helpful if someone could point out the page number that has the definitive answer as to how this is supposed to work. It strikes me that every example in this book was written with the mindset that this game is only meant to be played with 1 GM and 1 PC (or possibly 2 PCs, but that’s a stretch).

37 thoughts on “This is such a basic question that it is a bit embarrassing to raise, but the rules and examples in the book really…”

  1. The way it works for me in my head is kinda like a movie reel. Is it cool and fun for the heroes to gang up and slaughter the big rock monster? No, it’s crazier when somehow the monster is always ready to retaliate when an opening is present (like the cave troll in LOTRs). How do groups break up when fighting? Haphazardly, with stragglers jumping between fights.

    Fighting is messy, people charge in and things happen. I encourage you to go with the flow, react to your players and don’t worry about planning out your monsters strategies, just take every opportunity your players hand you. At the most, use the monster tags to help you think of what your creatures should be doing, or give them a simple agenda (get past the party, kidnap the wizard, etc.)

    And remember, no plan survives contact with the enemy, yours or the players ;D

  2. Philip Burge I feel like you avoided my question by having the volley roll a 10+ and having the Thief use stealth.

    But the ability to aid another retroactively gives me some insight. Although what would you have done had you already rolled the damage against Ragnar and the retroactive aid another would have turned Ragnar’s roll from a 9 to a 10?

    What would you have done has that volley been an 8 and instead of a Thief, the last person to act was a Paladin who also wanted to stab the elemental in the knee right after it had done damage to Ragnar?

  3. I think I get what you are asking about Andrew.

    The rule as far as I understand it is that any monster you attack can damage attackers as many times as the dice say it can. (If it makes sense).

    To grok DW you really have to drop the idea of actions and rounds and just let things happen like in a movie.

    Don’t visualise you go/I go, visualise it like a movie where the hulk smashes each attacker in turn.

  4. I’d say the Paladin would roll H&S as well. Running D&W requires to unlearn a lot of the tactical reflexes and habits we built over decades of trad RPGs. You need to forget the turn routine and start thinking like a writer or a film director.

    Have you read the DW guide? It has a lot of good advice on running combat scenes.

  5. In my opinion where things went wrong is two player taking actions and triggering moves at once. You should resolve the first attack, the H&S and only then should the next player be able to act. Moves are resolved as they are triggered in RAW.

    If is is a PBP then things become harder to manage properly. Ideally a PBP DW GM should be responding to every player post. This is difficult to impossible to manage. When I ran DW by post I tried to compensate by having a lot going on so player actions would rarely conflict with each other.

  6. I agree with all of the advice that’s being thrown around here. I’ll simply reiterate this one: Make a move that follows. This is one of the things I still have a hard time doing in DW, based on “D&D muscle memory”.

    Do not say this: “Player 1, your attack does 8 damage. Player 2, what are you doing?”

    DO say this: “Player 1, your attack does 8 points of damage. You knock bits of rock and dirt flying from the elemental, which howls in rage and leaps at you, apparently trying to crush you beneath its massive weight. Player 2, what are you doing?”

    See that? Player 2 is now deciding what their action is based on the threat to player 1, and you described an immediate threat that must be dealt with.

    Another thing I had (ok, still sometimes have) problems with in DW is getting past the “monsters are big bags o’ hit points which must be reduced to zero” mindset of D&D and its ilk. Remember: monsters are your characters, and they get to do cool stuff, too… far more cool than just play the “how many hits does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a bugbear” game.

  7. andrew ferris , I was also thinking this when I first started reading your post:

    You have a large, powerful, high defense Earth Elemental. It is the only opponent. The party attacks it using hack & slash and volley.

    Before we get past that part… to the part that we all seem to be concentrating on… I’m hoping that the party is somehow describing attacking this large, powerful, high defense Earth Elemental in a way that makes sense to actually damage something that you would describe like that. If a good portion of this elemental is rock and stone (I’m implying this based on “high defense”), then swords and arrows should be affecting it in pretty much the same way they would if you just shot them at earth and stone, regardless of the creature’s stats.  And I’m also assuming (hoping?) that your players are not just “hack&slashing” and “volleying” it, but are rather actually describing what their characters are doing to make those attack moves trigger. You might treat these two cases differently:

    Player: I rush at it, swinging my sword with all of my might!

    Player: I leap forward reversing the grip on my sword, driving its tip deep into a crack within the soft earthy portions between the stones which cover its hide!

    The first case demonstrates a lazy player who is just trying to whittle hit points off the monster. The second is a player who is thinking tactically, trying to take advantage of a perceived weakness.

    So, none of the “how does group combat work?” stuff really comes into play until this other, more basic stuff is being properly done.

    I’m making guesses/assumptions here. If I’m off, and you and your players were already good with all of that, please disregard this last bit of rambling. 🙂

  8. Here are some answers:

    a) Characters do not have turns in DW. Players have turns. That includes you, the GM. It is not a wargame where each character gets a turn to act. Those games are fine, but DW will fight you on this point. So it is not a matter of more actions = speed or anything.

    b) If it is your assessment of the earth elemental that it can only fight one PC at a time, and two PCs are attacking it simultaneously (probably from opposite sides) then yes, you are exactly correct. Only one PC is “in melee” and the second (plus any others) does not roll for Hack and Slash because they are just stabbing a thing in the back, not attacking in melee. So yes he just rolls damage. Assuming he has a way to hurt the earth elemental in the first place that is.

    c) Not in the rules, no. Just NPCs do that.

    d) If the other PCs are actually helping one character Hack and Slash and the whole table agrees with this, then yes, this is correct. If that’s not what the other players want their characters to do (and it probably isn’t, for obvious reasons) then make sure they describe their characters making other moves.

    On your related question:

    You don’t get 7 turns because you have 7 characters “on the board” (as it were). You get you turn as a player or the GM. Do it like this and it might make more sense than the movie analogy: Describe the situation to the players. Tell them what all your NPCs are doing, which ones are working together or ganging up on someone, etc. Just the beginnings of their actions, though, you don’t get to have the ogre start AND finish attacking a PC. Just the starting, what your NPCs are all trying to do. Then ask the players “What do you do?” Go around the table, find out what everybody is going to do about the unfolding situation. Resolve die rolls in whichever order makes sense. Any of your NPCs who were doing something and nobody stopped them, they do exactly what they intended to do. This can include dealing damage, even to multiple characters, it all depends on what various characters have been described as doing. Monsters that get stopped get stopped. Missed rolls mean you say more stuff that happens (you get an extra turn, in a sense, mostly just to do something bad). Once you resolve everything, do it again: describe the situation to the players and say what all your NPCs are doing, then ask “What are doing?”

    You get one big turn to set your NPCs in motion, and the players get to react to that. If they ignore an NPC, that NPC gets to finish their turn. If they stop an NPC, that NPC gets their turn cancelled. If they miss, you get to make a move and you can give that move to one of your NPCs if it makes sense or you can use it yourself.

    This is not in the book, sorry. Hope it helps though.

  9. I am working on a PbtA rule set. The hardest part so far has been explaining all the different styles the GM can adopt in managing the flow of the game; like a DJ, like a film director, etc. There are more than one correct solutions to “running DW right”. Rely on the fiction, make moves whenever you can, make hard moves when the players choose danger, resolve moves as soon as a player action triggers them, and keep everyone involved in the game, However that happens, you’re running DW correctly.

    I’ve run five players IRL and eight in PBP. I’d like the PBP to do over again, but managing five players and keeping them on the edge of their seats can be done and it’s exhilarating (and exhausting) to pull off.

  10. Okay, lets go even deeper there. 

    This thing is an earth elemental right? 

    So what kind of elemental is it? Is a huge chunk of rock? (basically like a Golem) Is it shifting sand that forms a humanoid form (think Marvel Sandman) or is it made out of soil and plants that can take any form? 

    Lets say it is “just” a stone golem type thing. Well whacking it with an axe or sword won’t do much right? Have you ever tried to split stone with a sword? If the weapon is a hammer or forceful things look different though. Arrows just bounce off the thing like Philip Burge described. 

    Same thing really if it is Sandman. It is just to fluid to harm with any weapon. Find a different way. 

    But it is not just a stupid golem right? It is an elemental of the earth. So it probarbly has tremor sense and you can’t just sneak up on it. If you are flying though it can’t perceive you. 

    Does it have rudimentary earth magic/bending skills? IF yes then why is it just bashing on people instead of throwing boulders at them and turning the ground under their feet to mud? Going further there – can it shapeshift? Can it split up into multiple smaller elementals or maybe merge with the ground to reemerge later and ambush? Can it grow to fill out the chamber they are in completely? Can it cause a cave in? 

    Of course it could also just be brash and direct and no-nonsense like the earth and then it would just charge and bash. It is however not humanoid and can use its body in a way that is anatomically not possible, like turning its torso 360° and become an avalanche tornado.

    But even then you have to figure out how you can actually harm this thing. 

    “But my players will feel frustrated if they can’t just kill something suddenly!”

    yeah, that might happen. This is why you tell the fighter before he starts to charge that he has a pretty good idea his sword won’t be able to really hurt this thing unless she gets clever. This is a perfect spot for Discern Realities, Spout Lore or maybe even Parley if this thing is intelligent. 

  11. Yeah, a lot of these replies aren’t helpful at all. They are declaring things that are the precise opposite of the mechanics they are describing.

    Monsters are not just bags of hit points… which is why, unlike any other RPG, they are incapable of taking actions except in response to being hit. And they only deal damage on a 7-9. If the player misses the monster, the monster does no damage. If the player gets a 10+, then they deal damage without taking any damage. All other monsters not being assaulted will merely stand there helplessly. They have no way of initiating an assault.

    There is no functional difference between a fast, skittish creature or a big lumbering one. All they have is a number of hit points and how much damage they deal. PCs have precisely the same chance to hit everything and everything has precisely the same chance of hitting them (i.e. only if it is hit on a 7-9). This means that if you face a master fencer, he’ll be knocked down pathetically easy while dealing very little damage while a big, slow, lumbering brute will be an immense challenge since he’d take more hits to kill and he’d deal more damage on a strike. All enemies speed gets increased by a factor of the number of opponents– the PCs basically stand in a queue, each one taking their action and the enemy getting a counterattack to each PCs action. Unless the PC claims to be “stealthy” in which case the enemy can take no action against them and they become 100% accurate– suggesting it is kind of silly for anyone to play a Fighter or Paladin when they can play an invulnerable, sniper Rogue.

    Rather than enemies NOT being bags of hit points in this system, it has left me with the narrative sense that more so than any other system I have ever seen, they are absolutely nothing more than bags of hit points with spikes on them. They are inactive objects until interacted with.

    And this is supposed to make “narrative sense”? It doesn’t– not by a long shot. There isn’t any possible way to make this system make any narrative sense, so saying that it is supposed to or that I am supposed to make it to is absolutely meaningless. I need DETAILS about how this is supposed to work, not vague sentiments, no matter how heartfelt or Hallmark-y.

  12. No this is just completely wrong:

    “Monsters are not just bags of hit points… which is why, unlike any other RPG, they are incapable of taking actions except in response to being hit. And they only deal damage on a 7-9. If the player misses the monster, the monster does no damage. If the player gets a 10+, then they deal damage without taking any damage. All other monsters not being assaulted will merely stand there helplessly. They have no way of initiating an assault.”

    I’d like you to read this article by John Harper:

    It is about Apocalypse World but the same sentiment still applies. 

    You said Monster only attack and deal damage on a 7-9. Monsters attack before players even get to roll anything a lot of times. 

    “The Myconoid Shaman raises his mushroom staff and throws a  bolt of cyan lightning at you, what do you do?” 

    This is a soft move put someone in a spot 

    Why do you make a soft move here? Because everyone is looking at you to find out what happens. The player now has to react to your move, properly with a move of their own. 

    Monsters also deal damage on a 6- , or they do not. It depends on what move you make there. Most times you would make a monster move that INCLUDES damage. So you freeze flesh instead of just deal damage

    When your Sword Arm is frozen you can’t attack the monster anymore with it. So what do you do? 

    Said earth golem could cause a cave in, cuasing all the stalactites in the cave to fall down on our heroes. You can just say things like that. 

    If the group is apporaching a Gorgon and is not using proper precautions that is a golden opportunity and you can make a hard move. Like 

    Turn a body part to stone with a look BAM. 

    If your Monsters are not proactive and doing things then yes, they can just get slaughtered by a few Hack&Slashes. But Monsters don’T do that. They fight back. Everytime you turn to another player make the monsters do something so that they have a decision to make when you ask “what do you do?” 

    It also doesn’t have to be to them specifically. 

    When the Ranger has taken a higher position to snipe at enemies and no one saw her then cool. She can just fire at Goblins. Sometimes that is cool. The move you make there is called: Give an opportunity that fits a class’ abilities 

    But maybe you want to put her in a spot instead. 

    “You have a clear shot for the Goblin King but then you spot something from the corner of your eyes. A goblin, holding a glowing and burning hot branding iron is sneaking up on the wizard. It seems like she hasn’t seen the sneaking bastard. Do you want to aim for the king or save your wizard friend? What do you do?” 

  13. Tim Franzke Didn’t that 16 HP dragon thing just disobey the rules entirely? The article reads that the party did negligible damage, but it didn’t describe the monster hitting back every single time it got hit at the hack & slash rules say is supposed to happen.

    Instead the PCs did their attacks without suffering counter attacks and then the monster picked a target, warned the PCs who the target was to allow them to react, and then did one potent attack to that one single target– permanently ending a PC’s adventuring career with that one attack no less.

    What happened makes sense to me, but it is also so far from what the hack & slash and volley rules say should happen. It is working under a different rule set, one that would fit my tastes better.

  14. No. On a 7-9 the monster get’s “an attack”. That doesn’t have to be damage. To quote the book: 

    “The enemy’s counterattack can be any GM move made directly with that creature. A goblin might just attack you back, or they might jam a poisoned needle into your veins. Life’s tough, isn’t it?”

    Also there is no description of them rolling 7-9s when he talks about the “negclictible damage”. The loosing of the arm was proparbly a 6- on a Defend roll.

    I don’t understand your problem here.  

  15. Tim Franzke So where was any description of that happening at all in the article about the 16 hp dragon? Only one single damaging attack was described being done by the dragon to the PCs in that scenario. Surely if the dragon had done a bunch of 1d10+5 attacks to the party, then only describing the one makes not much sense, does it?

  16. Yeah. They hit it once or twice, maybe with a 10+. Then the fighter rolled a 6- on Defend and got munched on. 

    That was the hard move on the fighters 6-. The GM then makes a soft move at the party. 

    “The dragon spews fire at you guys, what do you do?” and they had to defy danger or burn. 

    Then they decided to run away. 

  17. As the GM, you make your Moves based on what is in the book:

    * When everyone looks to you to find out what happens

    * When the players give you a golden opportunity, and

    * When they roll a 6-

    So, NPCs and monsters don’t just sit around, waiting to be killed or waiting for someone to roll a miss. They act when appropriate, and in a way which is appropriate given their tags, qualities, description, etc.

    When everyone looks to you to find out what happens happens every time a player rolls damage dice (they want to know what the effect of that damage was). It also happens when there is a natural lull in the game (we’ve defeated the monsters… now what?).

    If you do that, and also always or often make a move that follows, the flow of a scene will look something like: GM (set up), player 1 (respond), GM (respond), GM (set up), player 2 (respond), GM (respond), GM (set up), player 3… etc.

    There’s lots of GM talking in there, and when it comes to group combat type scenarios, there’s no reason why the GM should focus attention on just one of their “characters” until it is dead or defeated before moving on to the others. Shift the focus of the scene around, make things chaotic, give different players different opportunities to respond to different threats in their own unique ways, and you’ll find that your players will really enjoy themselves, and that your action/combat scenes in DW will be a lot of fun for everyone at the table.

  18. For a Group that has, primarily played D&D and D20 products for 20 years, the flow of combat has been the greatest challenge for my group, but every session it gets just a bit better, thanks for all great advice.

  19. Enemies in DW are way less static than other RPG’s. However when making the transition I’ve seen many GM’s play their monsters like they do in D&D and other games; this just doesn’t cut it in DW!

    We’ve been playing DW for nearly a year and we’ve had more PC deaths in this game than any other I’ve played in the past 30+ years. This is also the first game I’ve ever played where the players tend to NOT rush into combat and think about how they are going to deal with an enemy besides just whittling away HP. 

    Something to consider in combat, if the last action each character performed in a “round” was to attack (H&S or Volley) the GM is doing something wrong (even though that is exactly how other games work). Very few creatures can survive 5 or 6 successful attacks. Players should be REACTING to something every time they have a chance to act. The result of this means that oftentimes a character will only find themselves in a position to attack every second or third time they act.

    Picture this:

    Five PC’s face two hulking ogres. Combat initiates when  the ranger shoots lead ogre. Rolls 6; ogre snatches up a log and throws it at two other PC’s (GM Move); those two PC’s Defy Danger. Other ogre leaps over a rock and uses a pair of clubs to swing at two other PC’s (GM Move), his massive reach forces them to Defy Danger. Now, all five PC’s have done something but only one of them has made an attack. And remember every time someone rolls a die the GM may be able to make ANOTHER move. Four PC’s have just Defied Danger, let’s say two roll 10+, great, get back to them in a minute. Fighter rolls an 8; the log does damage and now you’re pinned beneath it (GM Move). Wizard rolls a 5; the club slams into your body (damage) and you fly into the nearby creek.

    All right thief you’re next to the pinned fighter and an ogre is charging you, what do you do?

    OK cleric, the wizard just flew into a creek, you’re standing in the open and the ogre is about to double-club you, what do you do?

    OK ranger, your fighter’s pinned, your wizard trying to get out of the creek, the thief and cleric are each facing an of ogre alone, what do you do?

    Now here’s the thing, regardless of what any of those PC’s do, all of them should be bit anxious about rolling the dice. Why? Because if anyone rolls say a 5 or 6, or even a 7 – 9, GM Move coming up!

    You have to continually place characters in danger. Remember, H&S roll of 7 – 9, make an attack: grapple someone, disarm someone, knock someone prone, stomp on someone and pin them, these are all ATTACKS! Do something that a character is forced to react too. If you just deal damage than the PC is just gong to H&S again, that’s a different RPG.  If they roll a 6-, be brutal! Make them earn that XP. The ogre smashes your arm, take damage, and the force of the blow knocks you down and flings your sword away. What do you do?  

  20. Great post John Lewis. Just a small change i would make. When the PC rolls a 7-9 to dodge a log that is thrown at her it is a great idea to put them under the log, just don’t deal additional damage then. That would take their full success away. Being trapped under the log however is a worse outcome for sure.  

  21. for me too. That is a good rule of thumb. A lot of monster moves however do also include damage and should be used if you deal damage. Just damage without any fiction is maybe the lamest GM move you can make. 

  22. Al Gordon said it: moves aren’t triggered by PC actions, they’re triggered by the GM’s interpretation of the PC’s reactions!

    The GM decides which moves are triggered when (or if at all). That means there’s a lot that can happen without ever triggering a move! Getting the players to roll a Move is just ONE of 12 possible GM Moves. And even then, it doesn’t have to be the obvious move…

    Your Master Fencer could easily outmatched any swordsman in the land. It’d be insulting to let just any attack trigger H&S. Want to make him harder to beat? Defy Danger rolls just to get past his lunges and get within melee range. 

    GM: The master fencer lunges at you with a series of furious strikes. What do you do? (Show signs of an approaching threat)

    Fighter: I’m going to hold my ground, try to meet each swing blow by blow!

    GM: Sounds like Defy Danger, roll+STR

    Fighter: Only an 8.

    GM: His strikes come so fast they take you off guard, you can fend them all off, but you’re going to have to lose some ground. (Hard bargain)

    Fighter: Fine, I’ll fall back.

    Thief: I want to put some daggers into him!

    GM: You loose a few, but the Master deftly knocks them out of the air with his sword. He sneers at you “Next one you throw goes into the back of your friend’s head. I promise!” (Turn their move back on them)

    Thief: What? No Volley roll?

    GM: Nope, This guy’s an expert; he’s matching you guys with ease.

    Paladin: How the hell are we supposed to kill this jerk?

    GM: Glad you asked. Roll a Discern Realities move.

    Paladin: 10. Nice! Okay I get to ask 3 questions. Uhhh..  “What should I be on the lookout for”, “What here is useful or valuable to me”, and, ummm I guess “What here is not what it appears to be”.

    GM: You notice that while the Master’s handiwork with the sword is unparalleled, his movement is sloppy; looks like he could easily be tripped if you can get him on uneven footing. He also looked annoyed by the thief’s move; playing dirty might throw him off guard. Finally, that sword he’s wielding is no ordinary blade… it’s cursed!

    Works for PCs too. If a player decides to step up behind a guard and slit his throat, there’s no H&S move, you just deal damage… heck maybe you don’t even roll damage – the guy just got his throat opened; he’s dead. Maybe the PC needed to sneak up to him first (Defy Danger), or maybe not. That all depends on the fiction.

  23. “The GM decides which moves are triggered when (or if at all)” 

    actually, the group does. 

    I kinda tend to disagree on the dagger throwing thing too. While it is a cool thing to do it defies the trigger of Volley. 

    “When you take aim and shoot at an enemy at range” 

    you still are doing that I think. It is not like with H&S where you have to engange them in melee. Taking aim and shooting at the master fencer would still be a thing you do and roll for i think. 

    It is up for interpretation. 

  24. Tim Franzke What I was getting at was that player’s don’t say “I Hack & Slash the orc”, They describe their actions and the GM tells them what move to roll. Can the group debate that decision? Sure; but it’d be an awfully long game if every move went down like that.

    As for triggering Volley… From The Dungeon World Guide, pg.14:

    Sometimes they’ll do something that doesn’t trigger a move at all, like attacking a helpless or surprised enemy- that’s not Hack & Slash, they just get to deal damage.

    The Master Fencer has trained countless heroes, and can fight 3-4 foes with ease. I used this opportunity early in the fight to point out  the players will need to think of something more strategic than “I throw stuff at him”.

    However, if you were the Thief player and argued that, I would let you roll:

    Thief: What? No Volley roll? Taking aim and shooting at the master fencer should still be a thing I could do… and roll for!

    GM: Yeah that’s true. Ok roll Volley… but his threat stands; you miss and you hit the Fighter!

    Thief: No problem!

    Fighter: Hey, uhh wait? What?

    Thief: 9… Don’t have a lot of daggers left, so I’ll move into danger. Damage is… 4.

    GM: With the Master Fencer and Fighter dodging each other’s swings, it’s hard to get a good shot – but you manage to find an opening and the dagger hits the Master in the shoulder with a satisfying thud! He screams in pain.

    Unfortunately you stepped too close to the fight and now risk getting tangled up in it!

    Paladin: How the hell are we supposed to kill this jerk?

    andrew ferris, the Dungeon World Guide has a really great breakdown of combat and making GM moves… and a nice play example. Others have said it before but it really helped me transition from D&D, and I think it’ll help you too.

  25. Hack and Slash is different then Volley though. I understand your point of course, maybe it can be argued that you simply can’t shoot at the fencing guy? But it is shoot at, not shoot them.

    Something that is way t fast might be impossible to shoot at, but not someone that is good at deflecting. You still shoot at them.

    Volley is just different then H&S because the trigger is written differently.

  26. Just as an additional comment; I can’t say enough about the DW Guide. Everyone at our table has read the guide but I think I’m the only one that has actually read the core book. In fact I stumbled across the guide and read it before reading the core book and things fell into place pretty easily.

  27. Ok, Reading a lot of old posts here.  Sorry for the tardiness.  It just occured to me that in the fiction, swinging an axe at a stone would simply dull the ax.  A Magical Axe might have a chance.  So when a warrior runs up to attack the Stone Golem it would not trigger a Volley or Hack&Slash move, it would trigger a Defy Danger as the Rock Golem swings at the warrior trying to chop it like wood.  And if you did allow a Hack&Slash, according to the fiction, it may take several swings to do any damage, giving the combat feel a little slower, so more of, “The Ranger runs up and swings his sword, getting flung by a wild arm.  The Dwarven Warrior runs up on the Rock Golem with your axe and gain several hits on it but the axe blade bounces off and with it moving around it made it hard to hit the same spot to do any type of damage.  Meanwhile the Golem picks up a rock and tosses it at the person firing arrows at it uselessly.  While you have it’s attention, the Mage casts a magical spell (roll Cast a Spell for the mage) and manages to do some damage to it…Now there is a decent hole, for the axeman to use as a breach in it’s tough self, warrior roll hack&slash….great you deal damage…Ok, you take advantage of the hole the wizard made and pummel that spot causing extra fracturing in the golem, roll damage.”

    Begining and ending with fiction.  The important part here is the fiction of the golem.  It’s made of Stone.  Unless the players up their game a bit, they can’t hurt it much, or they need to make more of an effort.  It also helps to think of a single Move as being a slice of the action, not an action or an attack, but a short series of stuff that other stuff can happen in.

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