I’m looking for more feedback on this mechanic and whether it should go into my next book. Thoughts, concerns, witty banter? (All are welcome!)
Originally shared by Joe Banner
Really interested in feedback on this – I’m intending to include it in my next adventure pack.
In short, it’s an addition for #DungeonWorld to reward XP, alongside bonds and alignment/drive.
It works well for our group, but what about you? Would you use a system like this personally?
This is interesting but I’m not sure I’d use it. The End of Session move goals could do with some extra pizazz but otherwise tend to cover the general, overarching themes of what my parties attempt to accomplish from beat to beat in a Dungeon World game. You do list a good example, ie: party members all picking fighting orientated goals, but the counter-example exists and comes to mind readily, “What if they pick opposing or in-congruent goals?”
It could be an exciting challenge for the GM to conjure fiction to fit the wants of each player. It could also be a nightmare; I’m not sure.
Looks fine to me. People have been using stuff like this to replace alignment moves for a while now.
Aargh – my reply has been deleted twice now!
Anyway Kaillan Reukers – yes, if they pick opposing goals, it’s a problem isn’t it. I’m either A) open to suggestions or B) open to the possibility this isn’t a mechanic worth developing further.
Especially going on your feedback, Johnstone Metzger – I hear this isn’t something revolutionary. It’s been useful for my group, it could be useful for others (especially newbies to DW or RPGs in general, I think) but maybe it doesn’t need to go in my next book.
Thanks for the feedback so far – keen to hear more.
I love it. I am thinking of it more like a bond with the world at large instead of with another player.
Yeah its great! Like Johnstone says, we have been kicking this sort of reward mechanic for a while.
I really like the format though – the whole BW style actionable belief [with the options in brackets]. Works a treat and follows the standard playbook ‘madlibs’ paradigm.
Rather than replace anything, just add it as another XP source, then either make leveling cost a little more or introduce a way to spend unspent xp during gameplay for some positive narrative or mechanical effect.
Casey McKenzie Exactly! The main reason I don’t call it a bond though is (as Nathan Roberts has noted) I didn’t want it to replace or confuse what’s already there – this is an additional way to get XP. (In my gaming group, bonds didn’t really work, but we’ve kept them in anyway. At the end of most sessions, players are getting 1 XP each for their alignment and furthering their goals, and if they get 1 XP for bonds it’s more like a ‘bonus’.
I really appreciate the idea of asking “What keeps your character from taking the next ship out of this hell-hole.” (That’s how I interpreted it 🙂 or “What is it that you want to accomplish tonight?” and then provide xp for those who seek after or accomplish their goal.
Notes:
The mad-libs part looks like a lot of work.
The statement seems to matter more than the accomplishing of the goal.
I very much like the “bond with the world” idea. I’m thinking of rewarding the player for creating an interesting goal rather than working toward/accomplishing that goal (that part largely falls to the GM anyway).
Thank you for this topic. It is blowing my mind!
This is an important subject, and one that DW may not directly address. Adventuring is crazy dangerous, and every character should have a good motivation as to why they’re blowing their life savings on a weapon and a ten-foot pole rather than staying home and being a farmer. What’s so damn important to you that you’re willing to risk your life for?
This is also a very good flag for the GM. It’s like a big red button you can push to get them motivated.
Player says: “X is very important to my character.”
Translation: “I want a chance to do X in this game.”
Peter Johansen – that’s exactly what I was going for. Plus: why are they blowing their life savings etc. and adventuring here (wherever “here” is – this specific dungeon, or jungle, or extraplanar city).
“Choose or create a goal for your character (examples are listed later.) At the end of each session, if you got closer to reaching your goal mark XP. If you accomplished or failed your goal mark XP and write a new one if you wish.”
Right here is my question: You mark XP when you fail, when you get a bit closer or when you succeed.
When DON’T you mark XP??
Anyways, I believe it is good for players to verbalize their objectives early during an encounter so that they don’t kill everything in sight and then wonder afterwords “why did we fight again?” If they know exactly what they want to accomplish they may act differently. But that’s on a smaller scale, this is about the big picture.
Wynand Louw, when you don’t get a bit closer and don’t fail? Does seem like a narrow middleground.
Peter Johansen I agree, this is an important addition.
I’m leaning towards something that can/should be asked every time we play.
The example of X being very important seems to miss the mark just a bit.
They could say “uncovering the mystery of such and such” which could take multiple sessions. Meanwhile, the player has had a week or more of going to work, arguing with a family member, and any other misfortune and now all they want to do is bash something. They come to the game ready to do so, but unless we have a way of checking their pulse we’d never know anything has changed (especially if we play over G+ hangouts or the like).
I am agreeing with your statements Peter, I’m just adding the word “tonight” to ensure it is working as an accurate flag of what they want to do, instead of a monument to what they wanted to do.
Matt Smith It could go either way. I prefer long-term goals myself, since they will shape the entire campaign, rather than just one night. I’ll try to write something up today.
I can see how long term goals would be useful.
I wonder if both would work together? Long term goals give you an idea about the character in general (maybe as they relate to this adventure) and short term goals to get a pulse for tonight?
Great food for thought. It’s like my mind has been given some steak!
The Calling – Bond with the world
Dungeon World is a very dangerous place. Anyone who would trade in their life savings for a weapon and take their chances as an adventurer must have a damn good reason to do it. Why are you risking your life out in the wild, instead of staying home to be a farmer or an apprentice?
The Calling is your stake in the coming adventure. It is a combination of both the character’s desires and the player’s priorities. What do you believe in? How far are you willing to go to get what you want?
Write a Calling for your character, trying to incorporate these three points into it:
– What is so important to you that you’re willing to risk your life for it?
– How are you going to accomplish it?
– What is your most crucial belief about yourself or the world?
At the end of the session, if you have made tangible progress towards your Calling, mark XP. If you have completely fulfilled your Calling, you can write a new one, or perhaps this is a good opportunity for you to retire.
Prodding the characters’ Callings is an essential move for the gamemaster. It is a big red flag that lets the players tell you what they want to happen. This makes it an ideal hook to get the characters into trouble. Offer temptations to bring the Calling into play whenever possible.
Matt Smith Peter Johansen Wynand Louw – you don’t mark XP when you ignore your goal, or pursue something else instead. Which is fine sometimes – if everyone’s got different goals, sometimes they can’t all be pursued at once. So long as everyone has a chance in the spotlight.
In terms of short term/long term… well, I’d say goals are medium term 😀 The key being they’re specific to the region the players are in. In between levels 1 and 10 players might have all kinds of goals, but /right now/, they’re in (for example) the city of Dis, because of “____”. Sooner or later the party might leave Dis (because of something happening in the fiction or because the party want to go somewhere new). At which point, they make up a new goal for themselves.
Initial goals would actually be best made after the first session, once players have an idea of where they are. (The same could – and I’m sure, has – been said of bonds.) “Oh, we’re on a boat are we? Cool! OK, umm… well my guy’s always wanted to start an arena on the high seas!”
The goals in [square brackets] are only examples. Given the chance, I’d hope a lot of players would have their own ideas. My group got ideas from what they wanted to see and do in our setting (a big jungle); moves on their character sheet (the templar made it their goal to build a church, because otherwise he’s fictionally incapable of gathering more followers) or just off the tops of their heads!
I agree with your comments Joe, but I would add that XP is a reward for getting into trouble. If there’s no trouble associated with a goal, the characters would have already gotten it by now.
And yes, the context of the world should definitely be taken into account. I would agree that waiting until the end of the first session before writing a goal works.
Absolutely – I didn’t realise I’d suggested otherwise?
The system our group uses for beliefs is:
Because of [some short/long term goal of element of my outlook] I must / will [some narrative goal achievable in a session or two] by [actionable mechanic(s)].
We also have an in-game use for the extra xp. You may spent a point of xp to add an additional d6 to your move roll., effectively rolling 3d6 for the move. The player chooses the best two results to keep to engage with the move. Note they they can (and often do) on these ‘fate’ rolls and thus earn another xp! That’s it though, no more rolls for the same action: the fiction has moved on, the snowball is in motion, the spotlight has shifted.
I played around with expendable xp in the form of after roll modifiers. I did not enjoy it.
Nathan Roberts sounds like you are doing something a little different…I might give that a try.
What makes these different then Drives?
Joe Banner Should you not word it something like this then?
“When you have actively (or aggressively?) pursued your goal in this session, regardless of your degree of success, mark XP.”
Anthony Giovannetti Drives are a replacement for alignment. They basically reward you for doing certain types of actions.
What’s being discussed here is a mechanic that helps the player understand why they do something and the GM understand what the player wants to achieve.
The distinction is small, but enough that it has caught the attention of some GMs.
Happy hunting.
Anthony Giovannetti – Matt Smith has it. If goals are X, drives/alignment is how you do X.
(Sometimes there’s overlap – a bard might bring peace to the tribes by defusing a tense situation, for example. I personally don’t see this as a problem, but if you do, let’s talk about it!)