Subject: Statting up big, complex monsters.
Multiple hit locations (head, body, etc.), because each part can be found in a different area of the dungeon.
Multiple forms of attack (psychic, physical, etc)., because it’s that kind of threat.
In your opinion, why or why not?
The write-up is looking a bit Palladium-esque, but if I (as the GM) am willing to track all of this, is there any problem?
The big questions to ask are why and what is gained by altering the way DW handles this.
Why stat up one creature as several when it is not? To model damage to different body parts? That can already be done in the rules as is. Is it to model extreme levels of durability, so the creature can’t be killed by chopping up a hand? Again: the game already handles that!
If you’re willing to handle a whole bunch of book keeping, then this is totally a legit thing to do. But! Make sure you’ve examined why you’re doing it, and what you get! And compare it honestly to what Dungeon World already does.
I, personally, would use the rules as is, since they can handle it.
Yes, this is what I needed to hear. Would you mind pointing out how the DW rules handle the two examples you mentioned (different damage for different parts, and overall durability)? I was unable to find these sections in the book.
Perhaps it’s my lack of familiarity with the overall game that’s giving me trouble.
Have you read this?
http://www.latorra.org/2012/05/15/a-16-hp-dragon/
It is excellent for explaining what makes huge, tough monsters really scary.
It’s not about the HP! It’s the fictional circumstances!
I second what Alfred Rudzki said. Read the 16 HP Dragon story and put some thought into the fictional position your monster holds in the world.
How does that position make him/her/it truely terrifying and what do the PCs have to do to overcome that position so that they can finally put boot to ass.
Think of it this way:
The Cave Troll in LotR isn’t taken down by the PCs whittling away a mountain of HP or destroying each limb.
They take it down because they find a way to overcome its fictional position (Feckin huge, long reach, thick hide, etc) and witch point Legolas throws a few volleys and the beastie drops.
The Troll may not have had a mountain of HP but it was terrifying and deadly none the less.
Have you seen the “Legends of Anglerre” RPG? It’s Fate-based, and they have what are called “sum of parts” monsters. The idea is the creature is so big that it’s effectively a group of monsters. So a dragon might be three “creatures”: its head (bite, breathe fire, cast spells), wings (fly), body (claws), and tail. You might be able to do something like that. There’s also Quinn Murphy’s “Worldbreakers”, which were 4e monsters that were actually designed to be the only monster in the fight and had a bunch of passive and map-altering abilities.
I get that [fiction > mechanics]. Hacking away at a tentacle or five might at least make the monster recoil in pain… and perhaps this is best expressed through the fiction. HP for each of an undefined number of tentacles would indicate: “Dealing 10 damage to a single appendage will cause it to recoil or be chopped off, but does not count towards defeating the whole creature.” I want to show the PCs how big it is; let them hack a little, show that it has some effect, but not in the long term.
While this example doesn’t show how it works in play, the Hydra in the Dungeon World book is an example of a creature that is built out normally, and has only fictional cues for its near invincibility. I think this is a closer fit to what you were looking for than the 16 HP dragon example (in that it shows how the designers would have written up a creature with heads (or tentacles) that can be fought, but would not be mortal wounds to the creature if a given tentacle was destroyed). Not sure that’s much more helpful though. The Hydra does also happen to have 16 HP, so that’s a plate o’ shrimp.
Explore that through the monster’s moves and custom moves.
Nothing says horror like the fighter getting a 6- on hack and slash against a monster with the move “Reveal the true depths of its presence”
Suddenly the floor buckles from under them asmore of it emerges!
I will be very curious to see how this plays out. I was considering multiple entries to represent a single monster as well.
The session is Thursday night, so I’ll let you know. As of now, I’m leaning towards a hybrid approach: appendages have ‘HP’ listed, but depleting only triggers more moves. The creature also has multiple forms of attack, which I’ll just implement as the fiction suggests.
Aaron I think you’ll find giving HP to each limb is going to limit your ability to be creative with what happens and what you can do. This game is less PC’s tools vs DM tools in combat and more so a narrative reward/punishment system in combat.
If the PC’s just sit there attacking limbs, you could already decide, ahead of time, that doing so is a poor strategy so you punish the PC’s with a fiery breath attack. Or you could say attacking the head is foolish because the limbs are ever present and knock PC’s away when they charge.
I would focus more on designing how the different body parts interact, writing down methods that could slay the beast and methods that cannot and bring forth punishment.
One of your rewards could be “If the PC’s strike with a powerful attack at the base of the limb it will be severed. Say 10 damage does so.”
There is a fine line to walk between GM cheese dominating a fight and a believable situation in DW. The monsters have low hp for the damage PC’s can dish out, so designing narrative defenses and attacks ahead of time is important. You don’t want to enter into a combat, watch the fighter get a jump on your big baddie, deal 16 damage and say “Oh he has a magic shield…your attack bounces off.” or “He has a contingent spell, his wounds heal up instantly.” That’s cheese.
Cool. As it turns out, the players that had *World experience loved the hybrid approach: tentacle fights were dangerous: 10 HP=severed, and each tentacle had two attacks (Swat: d10, and Shadow Touch: d8 ignores armor; use whichever is appropriate).
After two or three they realized there must be more to it, so they searched for the “head,” which was surrounded by tentacles and added the Ray of Shadow attack (2d6 damage ignores armor, up to Far range).
We ended on a cliffhanger, with two PCs clinging to their swords which were plunged into the creature’s eye/maw, and falling hopelessly into an unknown abyss.
Aaron Sturgill You’re doin’ it right.
🙂