This is what I came up with after a previous discussion with Trey Palmer Aaron Friesen Ben Wray Krusty Wightbred Tim Franzke and others. I decided to make the CC focused on a series of meditations learned from the Warriors of Shalad-Har. I would love to get some feedback. And thanks to everyone who helped out.
This is what I came up with after a previous discussion with Trey Palmer Aaron Friesen Ben Wray Krusty Wightbred Tim…
This is what I came up with after a previous discussion with Trey Palmer Aaron Friesen Ben Wray Krusty Wightbred Tim…
The meditations are a real cool idea and I like the fluff, I am to tired right now to really think about it all but I think sage among sages is to strong
I think the mercenary meditation should give at most 2 hold or not completely ongoing for everything. Maybe name one move they get ongoing with?
You could also drop every meditation to 2 hold and give an additional move that gives you 2/3 hold when using a meditation.
Buuuuut, this might be overkill since in a normal rest you probably can only use 1 meditation anyway…
Tim Franzke I had the same initial thought when Aaron Friesen recommended the Sage Among Sages move (he called it something different), especially compared to moves like Heirloom. I decided to go with it, though, just because it is asking about something very specific (weaknesses of foes) whereas Heirloom, for example, can be about anything.
Tim Franzke Yeah, I can’t imagine more than one meditation being possible during a rest, since it takes several hours. There is also a tradeoff because presumably there are other things the Sage Warrior is missing out on while meditating (healing and so forth).
But this would give you something interesting about everything you encounter, you don’t even have to roll. I would restrict it maybe to humanoids or another categorie otherwise you basically know every weak spot of everything you face in battle (I think that’s a superpower one inhuman has^^)
Uh okay, I misread you still can have a 7-9 result. But I still don’t get the connection to the heirloom move. That’s just opening you brain.
With different flavour
On riddle of power, how long does the extra damage last? Also one battle?
Do you make a difference between a fight and a battle like AW does or are they the same?
Tim Franzke Sure. I mean, this is about me being a fan of my PCs. I think the two Sage Among moves get directly at what Trey Palmer , my player, was looking for when he asked me for this (fictionally speaking). I do think the Heirloom move is more expansive in the type of info you can gain (which is why I used it as an example of how Sage Among is not necessarily overpowered).
But heirloom gives you the same things as spout lore just from another perspective or am I missing something?
I might also be overly critical as it is late, don’t wont to talk you down
Tim Franzke Riddle of Power damage option is for a single blow. Good catch–II’ll make that more clear.
As for ‘battle,’ I’m ok with it being somewhat ambiguous. My intuition is for a single encounter, but if it would make more sense in the fiction for it to be the several chained encounters (say, storming a castle or something), I’m ok with that, too.
Tim Franzke I interpret Heirloom a little more expansively in terms of the information I give. If the outcome is “more detail” I will provide several bits of interesting info that can be used by the players. My thinking is players would not otherwise take Heirloom.
Also, as a general comment on the game, I’m kind of ok with some moves being more or less powerful than others. To my mind, the more powerful moves should have more grave consequences on a miss.
Tim Franzke And I don’t think you’re being too critical at all. I wouldn’t have opened it up for critique if I was going to be sensitive about it.
I think the problem is that it’s hard to give greater punishment on a miss for a move that is incapable of missing.
Colter Hanna Well, I was speaking generally about moves in the game and my philosophy for handling them. As for the Sage Among moves specifically, I guess I don’t see what the fuss is about. Are you suggesting my game will somehow be broken? First of all, no one said it would be easy to even become a Sage Warrior. There is a certain degree of opportunity cost there. There is also opportunity cost associated with taking these specific moves (for two levels!). After all that, yes, the character should be a badass in this way. The moves can certainly be edited to give the 7-9 or 10+ effect while still imposing a penalty for failure but I don’t think I like that.
Oh, I don’t know if there’s a problem with the move or not, I was just kind of thinking out loud there. By default, I’m uncomfortable with removing failure as an option, because failure is a large part of what makes this game so great. Also, the mechanics of “turn a 6- into a 7-9” isn’t all that different from “+1 forward”, which is in particular a boring move. For a class like this, I’d be more interested in a move that expanded the character fictionally. I tackled a somewhat similar idea with my Veteran playbook I posted a while ago, but there are a lot of cool paths to take with this, like adding questions to discern realities (“what is the weakness of this foe”) or a move that lets you take advantage of successfully spouting lore about weaknesses, perhaps by gaining hold to spend in some neat way or something.
So yeah, inherently there’s nothing wrong with the moves as-written, and I have no problem with extremely powerful moves, but I’d always rather see a move that adds a new fictional ability than one that makes you better at rolling dice, personally.
Colter Hanna I can get behind that sentiment. I didn’t actually write those moves, but I went with them because they satisfied what my player and I had in mind. I actually like your thinking on it better. Feel free to re-write both moves. I’ll take your re-write if it stays in the spirit of “warrior who can quickly assess an enemy and find its vulnerabilities.”
Sage Among Warriors (New concept)
When you encounter a monster known to the library at Shalad-Har, ask the GM to tell you one of it’s strengths or weaknesses. When you encounter a monster not known to the library at Shalad-Har, you receive a boon from the sages for knowledge brought back.
Also, glad you’ve managed to get a cool compendium class out of the ramblings of myself and others 😀
Aaron Friesen I’m going to do some tweaking. I think the basic flavor of the CC is good. Your Sage Among Warriors move has been somewhat controversial, though, haha.
A challenge! Here’s an idea:
When you study your opponent’s movements to find a weakness, state that foe’s weakness and roll+WIS. *On a 10+, your assessment is accurate. Take +1 forward to act on the knowledge. *On a 7-9, the weakness still exists, but the GM will add a complication or difficulty towards exploiting that weakness.
Apparently! 😉
My two cents- I’m not overly concerned with missing being a thing. a 6- is only marginally more interesting than a 10+. The real meat is in 7-9s. Sage Among Sages is really just a “Really? Well, if you want to devote at least 20% of your mechanical growth to it…” I’m much more pleased with moves that bypass the die roll entirely. Ritual. Petitions. Charming And Open. Anything in the cool diceless AW-hack Undying. Cuts right to the interesting.
Also, if you’re looking for raw power, my veteran move Familiar Faces could be re-written with this new flavor in mind. It’s been shown to work pretty well in play, though I think I need to tone down the last option, (or be more aggressive as the DM in making “right where you want it” end up not to be where you thought you wanted it after all).
Familiar Faces
When you stand in opposition to a familiar foe, whether an individual or broader group, recount a previous encounter with them and roll+Wis. *On a 10+, hold 3. *On a 7-9, hold 1. Spend hold 1 for 1 at any time to do one of the following:
-Recall a previously unknown weakness or strength of the foe.
-Repell, resist, or endure a action that foe makes against you.
-Give you or an ally +1 foward to a roll made against that foe.
-Put the foe right where you want it.
Aaron Friesen I tend to agree. That said, I am going to re-evaluate the Sage Among moves. I think they can be a little more dynamic.
When you study your opponent’s movements to find a weakness, say what that weakness is and roll+WIS. On a 7+, you take +1 forward to act on that weakness, but on a 7-9 you misstep revealing a weakness of your own. State it, or take the debility Weak or Shaky.
Ok, I have re-vamped the Sage Among moves. I think these are better–and they re-inforce the notions of research, meditation, and careful consideration which are the underpinning ideas of the CC.
they look pretty cool 🙂
I love what you’ve come up with here, and will probably end up stealing some of the ideas in the future.
You might also consider something along the lines of “where can I strike to greatest effect?” for Sage Among Sages, though intentionally not including it colors the move in an interesting way.
Cool stuff! I have a question about Sage Among Warriors, though. What happens on a miss? Does the weakness still exist? Maybe you should only state the weakness on a 10+ (which would carry over to 7-9, because of the “same as above” clause).
To me, sounds like the weakness exists. You don’t get a plus on acting on it, and the GM gets a move.
Remember that GM move can be “reveal an unwelcome truth”. So, “sure, the dragon’s weak point is the soft underbelly near its heart, but did I mention how this great wyrm was smart enough to craft a dragon-sized and dragon-shaped suit of armor?”